Forums › Call of Duty: Black Ops Forum › Call of Duty: Black Ops Xbox 360 Forum › ITT: What BO did right and wrong, and wh ...

ITT: What BO did right and wrong, and what BO2 should include.

« prev next »

Page:

This topic is now read-only on GameSpot.
To post new messages, please visit GameFAQs and log in using the same email and password that you use on GameSpot.

Aug 3, 2012 9:01 pm GMT
What I don't like:

-Not being able to turn on an auto-mute option

-Second Chance

-Lack of hectic/rushing-oriented playlist (to minimize camping with Ghost and relying on KS rewards to post good scores) and lack of a system that rewards active players in general

-Cracked, Crisis, Havana

-The knife system. I realize the game is supposed to be fast paced. But why am I able to dish out 80-90% damage and get knifed during the fray? If I shoot you while you try to ADS at me, your body will flinch like crazy. Yet you can knife me without issue. Do it BF3 style. Two knife slashes to the front and one to the back. And the back slash animation takes some time.

-Weapon clones. Alright, I know many great games have this, including Super Smash Bros. Melee (everyone loves that game, right?). But still. The shotguns and LMGs felt different, but unfortunately, they aren't really the most practical class many times (other than the Spas). The weapons FEEL different to me, but they perform similar. (ie AUG & FAMAS, AK47 & Commando, etc).

-Lag, lag, lag. The only one that truly matters to me. It is truly remarkable that I chose the more lag-infested game over MW3, but that's only because I hate MW3 THAT much. Still, if they re-sold this game with minimal lag and no Second Chance, I would be a happy guy.

I'll post what I like and want in BO2 later. This is long enough already.
---
Tal | I'm back in action. Next up: re-buying old games, as well as a DS Phat/Lite/3DS.
DrFeelgood1984

Aug 5, 2012 8:24 pm GMT
Black Ops did everything right. More of that will do just fine. Just ignore everything MW3 !@#$%& up and I'll be fine.
---
Scammed by Leighton04 DO NOT trust this user.
PositronCannon

Aug 6, 2012 1:02 pm GMT
Agreed with pretty much everything except for the lag thing. For me, BO is godly compared to MW3 in that aspect as well, and I've played MW3 on two different connections (decent ping on one of them, very low on the other - both were equally horrible). BO has the occassional BS that every multiplayer game has, but MW3 is like that by default. I can't win a single head-on confrontation because apparently everyone has Stopping Power and Juggernaut in addition to seeing me a whole second before it'd actually make sense for them to do so. For a practical example, I went 8-22 in my last MW3 match, with an overall 1.8 K/D, while I have a 4+ K/D in BO and always manage to go positive even against competent players. Go figure.

Other than that, I'd also make the perks that share a tier with Ghost (or whatever they call it in BO2) more competitive. Only Flak Jacket really compares in terms of usefulness in this one, maybe not even that because of its rather irrelevant Pro effect. That may actually be a case where taking something from MW3 might be good: make the anti-air support effect of Ghost Pro into its own perk and have a more minor effect for Ghost Pro.

Some more weapon balance would also be nice. No, I don't mean like the FAMAS and AUG (I actually think the G11 is way more overpowered than those but for some reason no one uses it, even at high ranks), I mean between weapon classes. I don't see much of a reason to use SMGs in this game, let alone the IMO useless LMGs, shotguns and snipers. ARs have been too dominant since MW2 and it actually gets worse with each game. Not a big deal for me since I'm primarily an AR user anyway, but yeah.

Of course, maps going back to the good ol' COD4 style would be great but that's not going to happen. Hell, IW said MW3 would be more like that and then it had the worst maps in the series. :V
A7xb

Aug 6, 2012 5:09 pm GMT
DrFeelgood1984 posted...
Black Ops did everything right. More of that will do just fine. Just ignore everything MW3 !@#$%& up and I'll be fine.

MW3 did do some things right. Namely, the Specialist and the Support Packages (Though there shouldn't be 'kill'steaks in Support) and the creation of Point Streaks. They also included Infected, All Or Nothing, Weapon Proficiency, among other things.

At this point, there's two things they need to prioritize that I've seen other shooters do well.

Melee System. Blacklight Retribution and Battlefield do this well. Blacklight forces you to bring up your knife, which typically takes two strikes at default unless you have an upgraded melee weapon. The animation is quick and consistent with what we see in COD. You can melee with the butte of your gun and do something like 50 damage.

Spawn System: Come on, it honestly can't possibly be that hard. Blacklight hasn't given me the nonsense that COD is famous for. I've yet to be spawned within an enemy, 2 feet from an enemy, around the corner from an enemy, or some other BS. The problem is either they're using an obsolete system or the system doesn't work with the maps they're designing.
---
Call me Ajax.
DrFeelgood1984

Aug 6, 2012 5:24 pm GMT
A7xb posted...
DrFeelgood1984 posted...
Black Ops did everything right. More of that will do just fine. Just ignore everything MW3 !@#$%& up and I'll be fine.

MW3 did do some things right. Namely, the Specialist and the Support Packages (Though there shouldn't be 'kill'steaks in Support) and the creation of Point Streaks. They also included Infected, All Or Nothing, Weapon Proficiency, among other things.

At this point, there's two things they need to prioritize that I've seen other shooters do well.

Melee System. Blacklight Retribution and Battlefield do this well. Blacklight forces you to bring up your knife, which typically takes two strikes at default unless you have an upgraded melee weapon. The animation is quick and consistent with what we see in COD. You can melee with the butte of your gun and do something like 50 damage.

Spawn System: Come on, it honestly can't possibly be that hard. Blacklight hasn't given me the nonsense that COD is famous for. I've yet to be spawned within an enemy, 2 feet from an enemy, around the corner from an enemy, or some other BS. The problem is either they're using an obsolete system or the system doesn't work with the maps they're designing.

So like I said, Black Ops was superior in every way. Support and Specialist packages were a terrible idea, so was weapon proficiency. As for the melee system, I really don't see the problem but I hear a lot of complaining. It's a first person shooter and I'm not sure how people are getting knifed at such an alarming rate that it's become a problem. I don't want to play Soul Caliber Ops, let close range melee end as quickly as possible with a quick OHK knife. It's been that way for a long time and it isn't broken (except in MW2 because Infinity Ward managed to somehow !@#$ that up with the Commando Perk).
---
Scammed by Leighton04 DO NOT trust this user.
Faust_8

Aug 6, 2012 6:15 pm GMT
The M60 and shotguns are fine. I destroy with them. And what's that about rushing? Three of my classes have Marathon, one of them with Lightweight!

Basically, here are my nitpicks:

--Too many outclassed weapons. Most of the LMGs and half the snipers aren't really worth using. Same with a few SMGs...but not as many as most people think.

--The map selection system. The simple "here's a map, vote to skip if you want" system is the best. I really, really hate playing ANY map twice in a row, no matter how good it is. Also, BO's system is prone to glitching and giving you a map no one voted for, and so on.

--Suppressed sniping is too hard to be worth it. It's not OP for a bolt-action like the L96 to OHK to the chest and up while it's silenced.

--Is it at all possible to keep your match consolidated to one video in Theater if the host leaves during it? It sucks when you're on a long streak and the host leaves because then the match (and your streak or whatever else you want to string together in a few clips) is split into 2 videos.

--UAVs and choppers need to be vulnerable to bullets. I seriously dare anyone to shoot those down with bullets in BO. Even with a M60 and Hardened Pro it's so near-impossible that it's not worth the time, ammo, and vulnerability. (If anyone who can spare some bullets can shoot down a UAV, the stealth Perk won't be whored so much.)

As for MW3, the only things I want to carry over are Kill Confirmed, Team Defender, maybe Specialist, and the ability to cycle through unused killstreaks. Everything else is unnecessary, already done, or trash.
---
Name one time--in all of history--when assuming supernatural explanations improved our understanding of anything.
Aug 6, 2012 9:36 pm GMT
PositronCannon posted...
Agreed with pretty much everything except for the lag thing.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. Take it from someone who has years of experience of online play on the Nintendo DS, Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360, as well as with the CoD games. I remember a latter MW3 patch greatly reduced lag, and Black Ops lag is still very bad at times. This can be easily seen by tapping the reload button, and seeing how long the delay is prior to actually reloading.

For me, I reload instantly in maybe 10% of my games, even with four bars. What you see on another person's killcam rarely matches what happened on your screen, etc. And I've heard this from MANY people. And this happened on the PS3 as well. I really think it's just the game...

I'd also make the perks that share a tier with Ghost more competitive. Only Flak Jacket really compares in terms of usefulness in this one... That may actually be a case where taking something from MW3 might be good: make the anti-air support effect of Ghost Pro into its own perk and have a more minor effect for Ghost Pro.

Notice how splitting Assassin and Blind Pro did NOTHING to reduce Assassin use? Start limiting the prevalence of the Spy Plane (via making it less effective and/or increasing the KS required to obtain it) and you will start seeing a reduce in the stealth perk. Also, Flak Jacket isn't that dominant in my eyes. Lightweight is great for rushing, Hardline is excellent for working on a more reliant killstreak system and Ghost is obviously great. Flak Jacket is good in objective modes on defense, but overall? Certainly one of the lower tier first perks IMO.

Some more weapon balance would also be nice. No, I don't mean like the FAMAS and AUG (I actually think the G11 is way more overpowered than those but for some reason no one uses it, even at high ranks), I mean between weapon classes. I don't see much of a reason to use SMGs in this game, let alone the IMO useless LMGs, shotguns and snipers. ARs have been too dominant since MW2 and it actually gets worse with each game. Not a big deal for me since I'm primarily an AR user anyway, but yeah.

I think the reason for less G11 use is because of the lag. For burst and single fire guns to be effective in a game as fast-paced as CoD, lag needs to be a minimum. The lag makes it harder to get all the shots to register, and some people such as myself enjoy playing very aggressively, and using that weapon for that playstyle is a recipe for disaster. I agree with balancing the weapon classes. Other than the MP5k, AK74u, Spectre and Skorpian at close range, the SMGs suck. Nerf ARs slightly to start. I say buff shotguns and SMGs to promote movement. And I wouldn't call shotguns useless. Not while the SPAS is still around. The Stakeout can be good and a blast from time to time with minimal lag as well.
---
Tal | I'm back in action. Next up: re-buying old games, as well as a DS Phat/Lite/3DS.
Aug 6, 2012 9:52 pm GMT
A7xb posted...
MW3 did do some things right. Namely, the Specialist and the Support Packages (Though there shouldn't be 'kill'steaks in Support) and the creation of Point Streaks. They also included Infected, All Or Nothing, Weapon Proficiency, among other things.

I don't think Specialist is inherently evil, but Support is stupid IMO. It ENCOURAGES players to stay bad, to play with reckless abandon (and I AM NOT promoting to play so careful you have to camp, but rather to learn to rush with a plan, or at least with skill) and to not have to help the team. They get their killstreak rewards regardless, which takes out the point of the system itself. It should be their to reward you for getting kills in a row, and should NOT spoon feed you. This takes out the purpose of competition, and the motive in trying to get the streaks to begin with.

Teach the players to grow and become better instead of catering to them. I learned to aim by forcing an aggressive playstyle. It means either I die quick, or they die quick. Thanks to practicing this way, they are the ones who usually die quick. Now point streaks...I like that idea. I think it should be kept. Not sure I'm a fan of proficiencies though...

Also, the melee system obviously needs revamping a la Battlefield style. As for spawns, I think they're acceptable in Black Ops. In MW3? No...

Faust_8 posted...
The M60 and shotguns are fine. I destroy with them. And what's that about rushing? Three of my classes have Marathon, one of them with Lightweight!

The SPAS is fine. The HS10 is utterly terrible unless used in very close quarters, the Olympia is relatively reliable, but is horrible against multiple enemies and is required to reload both barrels even if one shell hasn't been shot, and the Stakeout, while great at times, can be a hitmarker machine for no apparent reason. No, they need to up the reliability of the shotguns. Then they will mean something more. The M60, along with the HK and the Stoner (at least very close range) are fine, but their horrendous mobility, hip fire and reload times make them less attractive to most players.

And I'm not saying rushing is ineffective, I'm saying that we should be rewarded and encouraged more than we currently are for rushing. Especially because of the degree of skill it takes compared to defending or camping. Besides, if they do this effectively, we will obviously have less campers, quicker games and more action. In my eyes, that equates to more fun as well.

------------------------------------------------

As for the rest of your post, yes, certainly too many weapons are outclassed. MW2 did the best at balancing weapons (although secondaries did get a bit out of hand...a sniper with an AA-12? Cmon...), but unfortunately failed in many other areas. I'm not that unhappy with the map system. I love maps like Firing Range and Summit and have no problem playing them twice. However, give me an option to filter out maps like Crisis, Havana and Cracked. maps that I loathe.

I don't care for sniping and personally would be happy if it ceased from existing, so I won't comment on the suppression issue. I also do hate having a great game, only to have the Theatre Mode videos split up due to host migration. But at least BO has a good Theater Mode...Lastly, I really couldn't care less if NOTHING from MW3 was used in Black Ops. That game is the biggest CoD disappointment of all time in my eyes.
---
Tal | I'm back in action. Next up: re-buying old games, as well as a DS Phat/Lite/3DS.
Faust_8

Aug 7, 2012 7:03 am GMT
Eh, I'm not going to debate these things with you, however, I will say that (coming from someone with like 4000 or so kills with the Olympia) that you do NOT reload both barrels if you only fire once.
---
Name one time--in all of history--when assuming supernatural explanations improved our understanding of anything.
SergioMach5

Aug 7, 2012 7:40 am GMT
I like that they put in an express playlist, no ghost or second chance, and everyone is out to play and have fun. So even with annoying perks, there is somewhere you can go to where they dont exist.

BO2 should split the ghost perk into a)UAV immunity, with pro being no red name/crosshairs, and b)killstreak immunity, with pro being immunity to IR scopes and other weapon attachments, and have them compete in the same tier (this is something MW3 didnt think right about)

second chance, ehh its nerfed to death anyway in BO by now, so call me crazy but keep it in.

Warlord freely allows attachment selection (no underbarrels was a bit much), and give a sniper perk the hold breath along with marksmans base version, with pro being faster weapon swap.
---
Delighted True Crime: Hong Kong is back in production as Sleeping Dogs!
Aug 7, 2012 8:36 am GMT
Faust_8 posted...
Eh, I'm not going to debate these things with you, however, I will say that (coming from someone with like 4000 or so kills with the Olympia) that you do NOT reload both barrels if you only fire once.

Well, does the animation end quicker? I don't recall it mattering whether you fired both or just one...
---
Tal | I'm back in action. Next up: re-buying old games, as well as a DS Phat/Lite/3DS.
PositronCannon

Aug 7, 2012 8:48 am GMT
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. Take it from someone who has years of experience of online play on the Nintendo DS, Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360, as well as with the CoD games. I remember a latter MW3 patch greatly reduced lag, and Black Ops lag is still very bad at times. This can be easily seen by tapping the reload button, and seeing how long the delay is prior to actually reloading.

For me, I reload instantly in maybe 10% of my games, even with four bars. What you see on another person's killcam rarely matches what happened on your screen, etc. And I've heard this from MANY people. And this happened on the PS3 as well. I really think it's just the game...

I don't know, man. I've only ever seen that kind of lag with 1 bar and the like. But as I said, MW3 is just always off for me. For another practical example, I never actually see myself getting hit in MW3, I just die instantly from my POV (which happens in every COD sometimes, but not every time). But when I shoot an enemy, it always takes me much longer to kill them than in BO. Considering guns in BO have more recoil than in MW3... what the hell is going on here?

So yeah, I'm not saying you're making stuff up or anything, of course, but I still know I'm not the only one for whom MW3 is utterly unplayable while BO is actually decent, with the only reason being the lag and not any gameplay element in particular.
PositronCannon

Aug 7, 2012 8:47 am GMT
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
Faust_8

Aug 7, 2012 10:35 am GMT
T-A-L posted...
Faust_8 posted...
Eh, I'm not going to debate these things with you, however, I will say that (coming from someone with like 4000 or so kills with the Olympia) that you do NOT reload both barrels if you only fire once.

Well, does the animation end quicker? I don't recall it mattering whether you fired both or just one...

It does end slightly quicker, yeah, because putting the shell in the first barrel takes less time than putting a shell in the first barrel and then the second too.

The Olympia really doesn't reload all that slowly if you cancel it. People either watch the whole reload or see the bad 3.3 second or 3.8 second empty reload stats and think "I need SoH for this" when it's really only about 2.65 seconds if you cancel once the shell(s) are added.

Do that and have the ASP as your sidearm and it's beastly, if you have Steady Aim and know how to move around the map. I've seen it get OHKs on full-health enemies at 50+ feet (I'm using actual body lengths, not just subjective opinion, people usually say 10 feet when it's about 3 body lengths away, so that's closer to 20 feet than it is 10) and my kill/death with it is about 2.97.

It really is an amazing gun, but NOT if you use Sleight of Hand if you ask me.
---
Name one time--in all of history--when assuming supernatural explanations improved our understanding of anything.
Aug 7, 2012 1:59 pm GMT
Faust_8 posted...
T-A-L posted...
Faust_8 posted...
Eh, I'm not going to debate these things with you, however, I will say that (coming from someone with like 4000 or so kills with the Olympia) that you do NOT reload both barrels if you only fire once.

Well, does the animation end quicker? I don't recall it mattering whether you fired both or just one...

It does end slightly quicker, yeah, because putting the shell in the first barrel takes less time than putting a shell in the first barrel and then the second too.

The Olympia really doesn't reload all that slowly if you cancel it. People either watch the whole reload or see the bad 3.3 second or 3.8 second empty reload stats and think "I need SoH for this" when it's really only about 2.65 seconds if you cancel once the shell(s) are added.

Do that and have the ASP as your sidearm and it's beastly, if you have Steady Aim and know how to move around the map. I've seen it get OHKs on full-health enemies at 50+ feet (I'm using actual body lengths, not just subjective opinion, people usually say 10 feet when it's about 3 body lengths away, so that's closer to 20 feet than it is 10) and my kill/death with it is about 2.97.

It really is an amazing gun, but NOT if you use Sleight of Hand if you ask me.

Alright I trust you. I guess I don't know as much about it as I thought.
---
Tal | I'm back in action. Next up: re-buying old games, as well as a DS Phat/Lite/3DS.
Solstice_

Aug 9, 2012 7:57 pm GMT
DrFeelgood1984 posted...
Black Ops did everything right. More of that will do just fine. Just ignore everything MW3 !@#$%& up and I'll be fine.

This is golden & i agree 200%

I keep trying to think of things Treyarch did wrong with BO. It remains one of the few games i personally find nearly flawless. I say 'nearly' because surely there must be something about this game that is flawed.......i however have yet to find anything of the sort.

Honorable mention goes to the ballistic knife & it's absurd distance. But seriously...that's it? Good Job Treyarch
---
No, no the Vagrant Story is not for sale. Now Playing: Tekken/Skyrim/Civ V/Record of Agarest War/Deus Ex - Recently Sold - 8 for $40
Halo_Forever

Aug 9, 2012 11:13 pm GMT
Faust_8 posted...

--UAVs and choppers need to be vulnerable to bullets. I seriously dare anyone to shoot those down with bullets in BO. Even with a M60 and Hardened Pro it's so near-impossible that it's not worth the time, ammo, and vulnerability. (If anyone who can spare some bullets can shoot down a UAV, the stealth Perk won't be whored so much.)

My current record of Choppers killed is at 2 in a match.
---
Poet Eliot had it all wrong....
TheRabid0ne

Aug 10, 2012 7:42 am GMT
I like black ops i dont like getting knifed after i put 3 hit markers on you with an AK47...
So i do like the "battlefield knife" idea.

I know this isnt battlefield but i like the suppression effect from weapons.
Give the blops 2 LMGs a suppression effect and it will make them usable and worth having one person on your team use one for tactical games.
Im not saying people dont use LMGs but the only thing theyre good for is not having to reload as often. And its not like you can use them how you're supposed to... like holding down one position. You catch a bullet in the face as soon as you fire 10 shots and dont immediately sprint somewhere else.

I think quick scoping is absolute bull****. Just because its fun to do in games (where everyone is doing it) doesnt mean it should be a win factor just because your team lucked out and got the rediculously good group of 3 quick scopers.

Thats all i can think of right now... its not too much to ask for
Faust_8

Aug 10, 2012 12:21 pm GMT
Halo_Forever posted...
Faust_8 posted...

--UAVs and choppers need to be vulnerable to bullets. I seriously dare anyone to shoot those down with bullets in BO. Even with a M60 and Hardened Pro it's so near-impossible that it's not worth it most of the time, ammo, and vulnerability. (If anyone who can spare some bullets can shoot down a UAV, the stealth Perk won't be whored so much.)

My current record of Choppers killed is at 2 in a match.

Well I have a M60 (highest damage and capacity in the game) with Hardened Pro (increases damage to killstreaks) and it still requires nearly all 100 bullets, or most of them, not to mention it's a long ass time in which to be killed while I look up in the air firing a loud gun.

You're literally asking for any enemy in the area to come get an easy kill on you.

Half the bullets fired at Spy Planes miss, and the heli tanks way too many shots. One of the things I like about MW2 is you could actually shoot down UAVs with about 30 bullets or so, meaning if you took the time to find it in the sky and could spare the bullets, you could, lessening the need for Cold-Blooded. And while choppers shouldn't be pushovers they shouldn't survive 80 LMG bullets either, especially if you have a Perk that makes you more effective against them.

LMGs have more of a point if they're dangerous to air support. I'm totally fine with more LMG use in the community.
---
Name one time--in all of history--when assuming supernatural explanations improved our understanding of anything.
Aug 10, 2012 7:48 pm GMT
Honestly, if they reduce lag, got rid of Second Chance and fixed the knife, that would be perfectly fine.
---
Tal | I'm back in action. Next up: re-buying old games, as well as a DS Phat/Lite/3DS.