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- Nov 17, 2011 5:42 am GMTHey again. SRC run, etc etc.
What should I have for Fang's weapon? Currently I'm still in Palamecia, so there aren't many options, but since she's going to be my RAV, I'm wondering if I should go for a magic-bias weapon. Would that help my cause, or will her -strike abilities do the trick? I mean, obviously a RAV doesn't do nearly as much damage, but I like to see my damage output go up, even from RAVs.
I just picked up the Pandoran Spear (which will eventually be dismantled for Traps). Should I stick with that for fights, or should I stay with the Bladed Lance, or even go with Gae Bolg (even MAG, STR, Improved Counter - useless, Positive Effect). I know I won't want Taming Pole due to Stagger Lock, and I probably won't want Shamanic Spear due to Enfeeblement (or Dragoon due to Stifled Magic). That leaves Partisan and Punisher. Punisher has TP Charge, which could be useful, but its STR and MAG are lower than Pandoran Spear. Partisan has no special, is in Mag Defense Sythensis, MAG is close to Pandoran Spear, and it has paltry STR.
I'm leaning towards keeping Pandoran Spear (because I like to keep one weapon and level it up instead of having multiples, if I can get by).
- Nov 17, 2011 6:29 am GMTThe partisan/rhompaia will be your weapon of choice for fang for most of the src playthrough. Stagger lock is not a problem even though fang is your only rav so eventually you'll want the taming pole and will t3* that. Fangs weapon choice in ch 10 and before doesn't matter, and you get the partisan basically a the start of ch 11.
I recommend tripling a trap (buy the first one) only one time -- in ch 13 before you finish the bosses. You can farm sacrifices in ch 13 and adamantortoises (yes TORtoises) eventually so all the other traps you'll need you should get the "normal" way.
- Nov 17, 2011 7:27 am GMT@addict
The rigels have 496 str at t2* whereas the pleiades hi powers have 1140 str. That's a huge bonus but as you say comes at the cost of -40% hp (and an absurdly annoying attack animation sound, WTF?). I used my save from before dahaka, picked them up, put 99 superconductors in and had a run at Bart 2. I won in 2:35 which is where I was before so there's 45 sec of time back, minus the time it takes to get the treasure on the schoolhouse and upgrade the weapon. PS - You have to be very careful during thanatosian laughter or Sazh will die.
The real question is does it save you more time later and I think the answer is probably not much. I can beat proudclad 1 in one stagger and beat proudclad 2 in two staggers without the hi powers although the latter achievement is very difficult to pull off. Having the hi powers would make those battles more comfortable in making the cut but wouldn't, in my opinion, reduce the number of staggers needed which is the only way to save more than 10-15 sec in a given battle.
It is possible that the hi powers make tiamat quicker (can you take it out in one stagger?) or the final battles but it will be hard to test because I'd have to play through twice to have enough cash to do it. That's the other issue - the hi powers cost about 30k more to t2* than the rigels. The moogle puppet right next to them is almost exactly the cost to t1* them so that doesn't end up helping. If you end up with he hi powers the diamond bangle is basically a must on sazh along with dmg reduction so you could skip the 2nd 180-->250 str upgrade I was planning for an additional 15k to offset the cost difference. As it is I was +30k from dropped incentive chips so i think I'm ok to try it.
- Nov 17, 2011 9:01 am GMTHere is the 2 previous segments redone and reuploaded:
Here is Enki and Enlil to before gestalt fight:
That is quite a difference fphjr01. Drogans equipment upgrade guides says Hyades Magnums have 660 str *ed. I see 1140 in splits faq. If we do use it we could go back to Taming Pole for Fang which would give here higher str as well. We would save some time by not having to fight the Berserker for the Rigels.
- Nov 17, 2011 10:14 am GMTJust checked in on that topic. That gives me a good idea of how to fight but it looks like I'm going to need to take some time to farm for money on the chocobo. Upgrading weapons won't be a problem at all; my pattern for killing the robots in Taejin's Tower has been netting me plenty of CP and Thrust Bearings (currently at 20; would be 30 something if I hadn't used them a while ago). I had to get to Daze with Snow for the third mission on Second Tier so I started with the group of 3 on the second tier (4600 CP), up the stairs, down the hall, down those stairs to the group of 4 (6400 CP), then back to the elevator, to the ground floor, and repeat.
Once I had finished that, my method has become...kill the group of 5 on the second tier using Alexander, fight the group of 3, fight the group of 4 and then I have enough TP to summon again, return to the room with the group of 5, head up the stairs. The group of 5 and all other groups respawn on the second tier at this point, return to the group of 5 and repeat.
Once I have Poison I'll get to taking out my next Mark and then the mission after that. Then it's time to grind for gil.
- Nov 17, 2011 12:30 pm GMTTaming pole only has 18 more strength at t1* than bladed lance and costs more than double to perform the upgrade. Given that only sazh' weapon will be t2* I don't see much use for the taming pole. also, the berserker is easy to preempt and goes down in 40sec whereas the vetala takes me 1 min, and that's on the runs where I don't get dispelled, debuffed or outright killed; a situation that will be even worse if you switch to the hi powers for that fight.
Also, sazh (and fang) needs some weapon upgraded to have enough str to beat gelatitan and dahaka in one stagger which is the vega 42s/bladed lance if the rigels are skipped. Wasting a weapon upgrade(s) like that kinda sucks but maybe it's faster and it is clear there is enough cash to do it depending on how many chips you get in ch 9.
One last wrinkle was my plan for wladislaus was to have fang sen while sazh spams cold blood hoping for ric. You can't do that without the rigels unless you get the taming pole which is then only used for one fight. That fight will also be tough because you wont have a sentinel unless you bring snow into the party and then you dont have a medic. You dont need a medic if fang sens and ric hits right away. You can have snow be your ric'er by saving the unsetting sun but you still have to change party/paradigms which you can avoid by having sazh use rigels and keeping sazh/fang/vanille as your team. Just another example of hidden time lost that offsets any potential gain by using the hi powers. I think I've pretty much talked myself out of it.
Maybe I'll play through with the rigels and you can get the hi powers/taming pole and see who comes out ahead overall. You've benn tracking my save point times to less than a minute so the runs should be pretty comparable.
- Nov 17, 2011 4:34 pm GMTMy favorite gil leveling spot on Palamecia actually hasn't been mentioned in most places. I suppose it might not be as good as the area where you can choose your team, but I prefer this section and always maxed my Crystarium and weapons to lvl 2 in normal runs before moving on.
It's when you first get inside the ship (Crew Corridors) with Light, Fang, Hope. Run through all the soldiers, avoiding the Tilters until where you pick up the Pandoran Spear, then run all the way back, fighting whoever respawns. Head out on the deck with all the Aerial Recons and Deckdrones, then head back inside before you get into a fight. Everyone inside will respawn, meaning you won't have to reset. There are several Save Stations along the way, and everyone has a 25% Common Drop of a Credit Chip and a 5% Rare Drop of Incentive Chips. Huntresses are 192 CP and Raiders and Infiltrators are 128 CP. Not bad at that point, imo, and you don't have to deal with the Armadons.
So yeah, at this point I'm overleveling a lot (SRC), but I'm not the most talented guy out there and Barty scares me. This is what I'm running/planning to run for now.
Light: Razor Carbine (currently lvl 20). I'll try to get this as high as possible before Barty.
I'll probably stick with the Carbine since she has no attacking roles in SRC and I think MAG helps with SYN/SAB skills. Does she have Counter? Do I need STR for that?
Hope: Eagletalon (currently lvl 20ish). Like with Light's weapon, I'm going to try to boost this pretty high. fp has said to pick up the Simurgh, but that doesn't come in until Taejin's Tower. I have a feeling I'll be running with Vanille during most of Pulse. Question: will Stifled Magic hurt Hope's SAB skills any?
Fang: I think she still has a * Bladed Lance, but I'll probably waste some gil on upgrading the Pandoran Spear whenever I can find a Scarletite. I'm wary of using the Taming Pole with a RAV, but COMs can break Stagger too, I guess. Either way, that doesn't come around until just before Barty 2, so I can ignore it for now. Pandoran Spear at lvl 2 * has ~150 less MAG than Rhomphaia. Also, I've never used the Partisan/Rhomphaia, so I might as well show it off. The Magic Defense will be (slightly) useful when paired with a Diamond Bangle or the MAG+ items, whereas I'd need a Shrouding Talisman to get anything out of Positive Effect. So I agree that Partisan is the way to go, but I don't pick that up until Vallis Media, so I'll run with the Pandoran Spear in the 5th Ark, I think.
Vanille: As I said, I've got a Marlboro Wand (~lvl 17). I probably won't bother upgrading it too much until the 5th Ark unless I have issues in Palamecia. fp suggested Rod of Thorns, but that isn't available until the Archylte Steppe. I'm wondering if I should buy back the Binding Rod, but Vanille doesn't have Blitz and she'll likely get more mileage out of Ruin. So I'll just run the Marlboro for a while. How soon can I pick up Ruinga?
Snow: It's annoying that my favorite character is relatively useless in a normal playthrough, but I'd say his secondary roles are the strongest of the support characters. Since he's a support, I'll have to run the Feymark when I get it in the 5th Ark. Right now, I have a maxed Tier 1 Wild Bear. Why not the Power Circle? Snow won't be using his STR much for the rest of the game, unless I give him a bit of playtime before Bart 1. Either way, I didn't bother upgrading that to tier 2 as It'll be useless after Barty.
Sazh: Is he used much after 5th Ark? I saw a few videos with him in it. I'm thinking either stay with the Deneb Duellers (Tier 1 *), or pick up the Rigels in the 5th Ark. Do SAB abilities activate RIC? If so, I can equip a Speed Sash or something and spam abilities to try to pick up some RICs when he isn't being a SEN. I'm on the fence... someone convince me.
Ok, so what parts of my plan are good, and what parts are stupid, asides from the massive overleveling?
- Nov 17, 2011 5:02 pm GMT@JB
One general point regarding weapon choice in SRC -- don't worry about synthesized abilities. You only have 1 accessory slot and that almost always is occupied by a bangle, and the phys/mag barriers are only helpful against attacks that hit a bunch of times with small damage that is supposed to add up -- i.e. not often.
Light: Edged carbine is fine, but I actually used the axis blade lv 1 for almost the entire game once you are committed to the SRC part. High magic will make buffs / debuffs last a few seconds longer, but that's never the deciding factor in a battle. Light almost never did anything for me but sen (i.e. elude) and occasionally uses sab skills. If I need a syn, its either Snow early or Fang later. Only exceptions to this rule are the Zirnitra missions, Attacus, and Juggernauts
Fang: Pandoran spear is a total waste of time -- but keep at it if it makes you happy. You won't 'find' a scarletite until the archlyte steppe once chocobos are unlocked and you'll want to use them for upgrading bangles, not a weapon that sucks in this challenge. Just roll with the bladed lance* until you get the partisan and then take that to T2* and you'll be fine for quite a while.
Snow: FYI the wild bear T2* has 83 more magic than the feymark T2*. Rock the bear and make the feral pride when Snow's curas stop being as effective as you'd like. Snow never needs a T3* weapon so the feymark never has an advantage of any kind.
Hope: Check my previous note, but what I meant to say was that Hope will need the Hawkeye AND the simurgh. The simurgh is only needed if you plan on winning all the missions, otherwise hawkeye / eagletalon is fine.
Vanille: Rod of thorns is the way to go for her -- take it to T2* and you'll have a weapon with the most magic T2* and 10 less str than the binding rod. Easy choice for almost the entire story. Again if you want to take down the adamantortoise, you'll need to T3* the pearlwing, but not until the end of the challenge.
Sazh: Stick with the deneb duellers. Sazh isn't used much until the missions and very late in the game. You'll want good magic as he actually becomes the strongest medic given his high magic stat. Snow will do fine until very last missions so don't worry about him for now.
- Nov 17, 2011 5:24 pm GMT@fp
The Pandoran Spear and Belladonna Wand could be useful for Traps since both give you three back when you dismantle them at max Tier 3. Speaking of which, how many Traps should I need (i.e., how many weapons should be at Tier 3 at the end)? I see you suggest a Tier 3 weapon for Vanille, and that's it. So would I need Tier 3 on any other weapons at the higher challenges? Speaking of which... I'm not looking forward to the Ochu battles without having Death... I just thought of that >.<
I think Axis Blade is probably a bit better for Light if MAG really doesn't mean that much, then. I like its design more than the Carbines anyways. I know you said ignore synthesized abilities, but I wonder if she could survive later on with a Whistlewind. Sadly, she sorely lacks in the HP department.
Re: Hope's weapon, that's what I understood you to say. I ran out of characters, so I couldn't mention that in my post.
For Snow's weapon: That's counter-intuitive, but very interesting. I guess I'll stick with Wild Bear then. I guess he only gets more MAG with Feymark at Tier 3?
Ok, so I'm a little more focused with weapons... that's one area that I really had no idea what to do since almost all of the weapons are geared towards using the primary roles. Now I'll probably try to get my weapons to around lvl 25 or so before moving on. I'm hoping to kill off Barty before Doom sets in.
- Nov 17, 2011 8:17 pm GMTIf you want to finish and 5 star all the missions, you need the following weapons T3*:
Taming Pole - for everything
Hawkeye - M63, helpful for Orphan 2
Pearlwing Staff - M63
Deneb Duellers - M64, M62
Depending on your party choice for attacus, you'll want to T3* either the simurgh (if you use hope/fang/light) or the rod of thorns (if you use fang/sazh/vanille). That's 5 traps. I recommend you buy 1, triple it, and then get the other two you need as drops from the adamantortoise and/or dismantle the genji glove from M63. You'll farm quite a few ingots to get all that cash, so its not worth tripling more than once.
Having a maxed T3* simurgh is very helpful for M62 but not required. You'll almost certainly want fang/sazh/hope for that battle.
If you don't plan on finishing all the missions, T3* weapons aren't required at all, but they make Orphan 2 A LOT easier. At an absolute minimum consider getting Fang a T3 weapon for the 5th atb slot even if you don't max it, which will help you stagger Orphan 2 before temporal hollow.
- Nov 17, 2011 8:21 pm GMTSpent some time fighting Bart 2 and trying to optimize the early part of Ch 12. Got to Proudclad 1 and I can still take him down without too much trouble. I actually have an extra fortisol so I'm planning to cash that in here for the 20-30 sec time savings. Don't need any rounds of com / com / med before stagger if you make sure to trigger a cold blood right as the gauge is about to deplete -- Fang will smite and then take out the rest of its health. 1:42 was my best time.
I didn't do everything I wanted before the PC1 save and my early ch 12 battles weren't as fast as I'd like so I think I might go back to Bart 2 and get a good run now that i know what paradigms I want to minimize menu time.
- Nov 17, 2011 8:48 pm GMTJust curious. I don't plan to do the speed run anytime soon, but I would like to sometime. Haven't seen Anakin pop up in a bit. Was wondering if after a lot of these discoveries if you (mainly fp, but any who have been speedrunning too such as addict) thinking of possibly trying to update the speedrun FAQ (with Anakin's help/blessing of course). There's just a lot of great info in here that IMO belongs in an FAQ. And as great as Anakin's guide is, I know he did it shortly after the game came out, and obviously a lot of things have been uncovered since then.
So yeah. Just wondering
Trusting my soul to the ice cream assassin
- Nov 17, 2011 11:25 pm GMTfphjr01
I might test using the Hi Powers on Ch.12 and 13 bosses this weekend. I have an NCU file before Dahaka that I will use and I'll post the times for all the bosses.
I think Anakin intends on updating it sometime, but you are right he hasn't been here in awhile.
- Nov 18, 2011 6:30 am GMTAppreciate the feedback Tori. Personally, I'm so disenchanted with the stupidity in which faqs are accepted on this site that I'll never submit one again. The reviewers simply spam "oversaturation" and make no attempt to determine how a submission compares quality wise to what's existing. Basically whoever gets in after the first few weeks is what you're gonna get and if significant improvements are made after that, you either have to hope the original author will do it or too bad! For example, the ncu, src, and speed run guides are all now archaic compared to what is known. I have a very detailed mfo guide that was rejected for the reason above. This system sucks.
I plan to revise my previous summary posts with treasures to get, cash flow for the game, and a list of time checks to follow -- I'll post It in this thread but that's gonna be it. Beyond that, I suggest you bookmark addicts YouTube page because that's better than a FAQ anyway.
- Nov 18, 2011 8:31 am GMT@fp: Do you have any notes or anything typed up for SRC? I'd certainly benefit a lot if I could have an updated version, since, as you said, the one on hand is really out of date. I can even see that even though I've not been very active here. I mean, there are parts that *I* could suggest better things for. Typed notes help me a lot more than YT vids because I record my attempts and post them myself on YT.
- Nov 18, 2011 10:40 am GMTJB - check back on page 3 of this thread. I directed ethereal to the "ncu / neu united 6" thread where I chronicled my progress for src much as I'm doing now for speed run. For all the boss fights and many of the harder missions I wrote down team / strategy / paradigms / equipment etc. It's all there. Just search for the quoted tex in the thread search and you should find it. Src stuff starts on page 5.
- Nov 18, 2011 3:06 pm GMTJust read through/copied all the stuff you and sonic said for the SRC run. 24 pages on a Word doc. Lotsa good info there. I'll certainly be using it along with the posted guide once I sort out the info.
Also, Sonic is Key313. Awesome. I'd been using his videos already, and they were what really got me interested in trying this.
I noticed you said the ATB-canceling only works every other Shift. That's likely correct for 99% of the shifts you make if you only let the bar fill once before shifting, but according to the game mechanics guide in the FAQ, it's reset every 12 seconds. I've had times where Lightning has been interrupted in an attack, only filled the gauge once, and had a full gauge after ATB-cancel. You probably knew this, but I thought it would be worth pointing out. I wonder how that changes things in Slow ATB?
I'm getting excited for 13-2. I'm wondering if NCU will be possible or not. It doesn't look as if SRC will be, but it might be, depending on the Role Upgrade conditions. The rules will probably have to be tweaked a little. Probably the Feral Links will help a ton too. But this is the FF13 thread, not the 13-2 thread.
- Nov 18, 2011 4:45 pm GMTDahaka down. It took a few attempts because Fang and Vanille were a little too eager to stagger Dahaka ahead of schedule. Dahaka was able to attempt to use Dilluvial Plague twice but got interrupted both times. After the fourth stagger before he could finish standing up he ran out of health.
- Nov 18, 2011 6:02 pm GMTNice job ethereal -- dahaka isn't too bad, but when shrouds run out, it can be close getting him staggered in time to cancel the big move. Don't know how much you grinded cp but you need quite a few skills to get Bart 2 to go down (at least I did). It took me the whole 20min + part of doom to get him down.
- Nov 18, 2011 7:02 pm GMTfphjr01 posted...
Nice job ethereal -- dahaka isn't too bad, but when shrouds run out, it can be close getting him staggered in time to cancel the big move. Don't know how much you grinded cp but you need quite a few skills to get Bart 2 to go down (at least I did). It took me the whole 20min + part of doom to get him down.
I didn't have much trouble staggering him even with the Shrouds gone. I had at least a spare 10 seconds of waiting for him to try using Dilluvial Plague on the last time.
Snow has maxed out his Saboteur role for the time being and Fang nearly has Haste. I'm currently working on building up Snow's Synergist role as that's rather lacking.
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