Judge upholds suit against Sony

By Tim Surette, GameSpot
Posted Mar 14, 2006 8:59 am AEST

Sony's attempt to overturn $90 million lawsuit by Immersion for copyright infringement rejected; further Sony products could be affected.

In 2003, Immersion Corporation sued both Sony and Microsoft for infringing on the company's "haptic" technology, which allows gamers to feel their controllers vibrate in sync with action that takes place on the screen. Microsoft decided to settle out of court, and is now a licensee of Immersion's technology. Sony decided to fight in court, but lost last year when a judge ordered the PlayStation factory to pay more than $90 million in damages.

In addition, Sony was ordered to stop selling both the PlayStation and PlayStation 2, as well as several games that used the force feedback system. Sony immediately appealed and was granted a stay, but was required to pay Immersion licensing fees while it continued to sell products that infringed on Immersion's patents.

Sony brought the case back in court last week, basing its argument on the fact that Immersion withheld information about previous haptic-technology inventions made by Craig Thorner, who previously consulted with Immersion. Sony claims it could have used some of the concealed information in its case to render Immersion's patents invalid.

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that US District Judge Claudia Wilken denied Sony's motion to overturn the decision. According to the WSJ, Wilken claimed that Thorner's pro-Sony testimony was "unreliable" and that there is reason to believe that Sony paid him $150,000 "quid pro quo" for his services.

Sony still has an outstanding appeal with the US Court of Appeals for the stay of injunction. Should that case fail, Sony would be legally required to pay the entire $90.7 million and decide whether or not to pay Immersion licensing fees. If Sony opts not to become one of Immersion's licensees, which includes BMW, Logitech, and Mad Catz, the company would have to find an alternative design for its DualShock controllers.

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Adam_the_Nerd
Posted Jul 8, 2008 9:47 pm AEST

Wow; who knew that a rotating/shaking weight attached to a motor inside a controller was worth so much money...
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IceDefenseGod
Posted Jun 5, 2008 7:00 pm AEST

Sanguis_Malus, that's the biggest load of crap I've heard in quite awhile. Since Sony's obviously been so arrogant. It's a fact that rivals companies have it out for Sony (and they good reason). It's been proven time and time again that third-party companies are siding with Microsoft, ex. Capcom with DMC4's multi-platform, Rock Band/ Guitar Hero guitars incompatibility with only PS3 versions of GHIII/ RB, and the overall pompous attitude of most Microsofties towards the more advanced console. Forget vibration, that's just another option to mess with pre-game. Forget this crap, at least we can remember the good days of the PS2 dynasty.
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RatchetRulz
Posted May 15, 2008 3:39 pm AEST

the ps3's six-axis controller uses a different way of motion sensing. its not the same as nintendo in otherwords... why do you think they havnt been sued by nintendo for motion sensing. im not sure if nintendo ever patened that their controller can sense motion but how it sences motion and the ps3 didnt put a rumble feature in its controller because it messes with the sixaxis motion senser.... GO SONY, MICROSOFT, and NINTENDO for coming out with 3 great systems.
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dungeonboss
Posted Aug 4, 2006 12:39 pm AEST

Both Nintendo and Microsoft are licensees of Immersion and Immersion gave Sony the chance years ago. Sony decided not to and copied (in all reality its what they did) And now Immersion is just trying to get a little credit for what they invented. Anything Sony has to pay will be exactly what Nintendo and Microsoft have already been paying (but as a lump sum because its been several years now).

That's the price of lack of creativity in a market where creativity is what counts!
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PureLegend
Posted Aug 4, 2006 2:42 am AEST

Excuse me, but why is BMW a licensee?

I don't think the rumble of their cars is intentional...
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Sanguis_Malus
Posted Jun 20, 2006 5:25 am AEST

Sony's arrogance has backfired , GOOD !
I hope they have to pay the whole amount of the fine. Instead of settling they probably thought they would win due to their stature and amount of money.
If anybody infringed upon on a mere aspect of anything connected to Sony I'm sure they would be out for blood !
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blueday
Posted May 22, 2006 11:53 am AEST

I love Sony. But they deserve to pay up for stealing the technology from hard working people.
I hope they get sued for Thumb Stick and PS3's gyro feature. Because that's just such a huge blow to the inovative Nintendo.
Sure I love Sony, but we need Nintendo to continue to inovate. And advance the Video Game world.
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Thesilverpimp
Posted May 19, 2006 9:44 pm AEST

so i guess the solution is to create a new kind of controller, one that connects to your body and you simpply use your hands, and from your hands you can control what's going in your screen, and also feel the rumble troughtout your body with some sort of shock that make you shiver and ..
ok let me stop right there
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RoboChocobo
Posted May 11, 2006 8:52 pm AEST

In context, this makes the PS3 controller all the more laughable.
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bobreturns
Posted May 9, 2006 2:01 pm AEST

thats why there is no rumble in the ps3 controller obdviously
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HaloMasters
Posted May 9, 2006 4:29 am AEST

lame...
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HaloMasters
Posted May 9, 2006 4:29 am AEST

this proves once again where sony is with there so called ''competative'' mind...
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robo426
Posted Mar 23, 2006 8:34 pm AEST

It says that sony would have to change the design of the conrollers? Really wouldn't they just need to change the vibration system. The patent had nothing to do with the actual design of the controller.
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Jestarius
Posted Mar 22, 2006 7:28 pm AEST

did you guys not read the post about nintendo owning part of Immersion? I haven't exactly taken the time to pull apart my controllers to compare...but they own part of the company, so they aren't going to sue themselves. So far I've seen more sony fanboys than nintendo ones...looks like nintendo is pulling the strings again though, amusingly.
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sam20vt
Posted Mar 18, 2006 7:53 pm AEST

it things like this that make me lose faith in the american justice system.
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amkalfus
Posted Mar 17, 2006 11:51 pm AEST

that's bull... everyone just is so friggin sue happy and wants a piece of the money. what a joke... i hate that they can get away with this, ripping sony off, making them pay all kinds of money... ridiculous...
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FallenOneX
Posted Mar 15, 2006 2:06 pm AEST

Ulrikz, what Nintendo did wasn't a short cut, it was a MONOPOLY. big difference.

Gray wolf/Odin75789: This lawsuit took place in 2003. Which means that wheeling and dealing behind the scenes has been going on for years.

monsteronthego: Nintendo fanboys...... wow. Why does it always go back to this? The only thing to say is: look at who's not being sued. Notice that while the Big N does own part of Immersion, they aren't the ones involved in the suit. Sony and MS screwed up on their own, and only MS had the sense to admit they were wrong. Get over it.

Everyone else saying that Immersion is just a money hungry company: SO WHAT! I don't care if they owned a patent and sat on it, it's their patent. Money hungry huh. So what's the deal with 3rd part 360 games releasing for $10 more?????? I guess they're all money hungry companies, and Microsoft is the only one that cares for their customers, right.....

BTW, if Sony hadn't made the launch announcement yesterday and confirmed the delay on the Blu-Ray issue, I would've put my money on this being the reason for the delay.
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ewjim
Posted Mar 15, 2006 11:58 am AEST

WHERE are hell Immersion's was all those years?! I think they bunch of ...
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040591
Posted Mar 15, 2006 10:38 am AEST

i like sony but what they did was pretty stupid, they have to do things like nintendo, so they consoles and everything is "unique" for Sony, likenintendo si doing with the revolution and it (strange but cool) controler
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anamnawshad
Posted Mar 15, 2006 10:16 am AEST

soulknight63133 wrote
"That's funny..Sony doesn't want to pay for using someone else technology..but wants everyone sign on and pay for their "blue-ray" technology......pathetic!" Yeah! I agree, Sony is trying to suck blood by BLU-RAY.
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remmbermytitans
Posted Mar 15, 2006 9:36 am AEST

look at that.... copying people (without permission i might add)..... is BAD!!! thank god sony's learning their lesson...
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Omega-Protoman
Posted Mar 15, 2006 9:27 am AEST

Well, we'll see if this goes anywhere. Too bad for Sony though, I hope this doesn't end up affecting their ability to produce the PS3.
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thps48
Posted Mar 15, 2006 8:56 am AEST

KILL SONY!!!!!1!1!11!!
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peterzhao333
Posted Mar 15, 2006 8:26 am AEST

hum.... Bad for Sony...
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Rainydays
Posted Mar 15, 2006 3:42 am AEST

Hahaha, screw you sony.
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cal_hooper
Posted Mar 15, 2006 1:25 am AEST

There, see? Microsoft and Sony, two of the biggest actually screw up! Thank you Nintendo for doing your own thing like you always did and planning ahead to avoid lawsuits and other unwanted attention...
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Allan_X
Posted Mar 15, 2006 12:38 am AEST

Immersion is starting to remind me of Sco and their stranglehold on Unix. Of course, it may seem like it's just a bunch of big bad companies like Microsoft and Sony getting sued by "Resourceful little guys" like Sco and Immersion, but it's not really like that at all. I'm sick of seeing companies that exist for the sole reason of suing to "protect" their patents, trademarks, and copyrights.

That off-center flywheel tech is a no-brainer. I mean, if you went to patent office and said "Hey, I think I'll patent the wheel and start suing automakers!", I'm pretty sure you'd be universally reviled by all... consumer and manufacturer alike.

Immersion is pathetic. I hope they die.
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The_PirateKing
Posted Mar 14, 2006 11:17 pm AEST

LOL!!! It's nice to see Sony get burned for copying other people. This brings a smile to my heart
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Shaun373
Posted Mar 14, 2006 10:10 pm AEST

"The problem with these types of suits is they way North American patent law works. In North America you're not required to actually build what you patent, meaning companies can exist for the single purpose of patenting ideas with no intention of ever implementing or building them. In Europe patents have a time limit in which you have to show that you actually intend on building what you patent. This system is much more effective in eliminating money grubbing "companies" who really consist of a team of patent lawyers rather than a team of technology developers. "

You cannot however simply hold a patent soley for the purposes of receiving royalties. I do not know the exact time frames but if you cannot prove intent to use the patent it then becomes a "bad-faith patent" and companies that developed what would be infringing technology on their own cannot patent the same tech but also do not have to pay to use it.
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StratoUltima
Posted Mar 14, 2006 8:14 pm AEST

that is illogical seeing as to the fact that it takes money to produce/build what you patent, and some people who come up with great ideas and issue a patent arent always in Gates' shoes, it would be unfair to have them lose their idea to someone that is already wealthy and just greedy.
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some1usingaim
Posted Mar 14, 2006 8:08 pm AEST

Pretty funny...
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invictuslemming
Posted Mar 14, 2006 7:29 pm AEST

The problem with these types of suits is they way North American patent law works.

In North America you're not required to actually build what you patent, meaning companies can exist for the single purpose of patenting ideas with no intention of ever implementing or building them.

In Europe patents have a time limit in which you have to show that you actually intend on building what you patent.
This system is much more effective in eliminating money grubbing "companies" who really consist of a team of patent lawyers rather than a team of technology developers.
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chapin08
Posted Mar 14, 2006 7:21 pm AEST

HA HA TAKE THAT SONY
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BobTowilliger
Posted Mar 14, 2006 7:07 pm AEST

Wow, this is unbelievable. If the suit was legit, why didn't the case surface when the Dual Shock was FIRST released, and not until video gaming became a billion dollar industry? Stinks to high heaven.

Immersion is really low. I hope existence karamas them accordingly.
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jimbo102671
Posted Mar 14, 2006 5:41 pm AEST

Judging by the article, Sony will have to stop shipping the PS2 (at least with the current controllers) if they lose the stay of injunction (and decide not to be an Immersion licencee). With the PS3's compatibility with PS2 games, can this lead to a halting of PS2 consoles altogether? I can only imagine how much the current slim PS2s will sell on eBay in a few years if this case scenario becomes reality.

Also, I'm no analyst, but I can all but guarantee (or bet money, as I currently don't have any) that the PS3's controllers will be impacted by this decision.
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KoyHalloren
Posted Mar 14, 2006 5:09 pm AEST

For those asking, it isn't the fact that the controller has a rumble feature at all that' immersion was suing over, it is the tech used to create the rumble feature. If you crack open a Dual shock or Xbox controller you'll find in each handle a sort of rotating off-center weight that spins when the vibration feature is engaged. The weight spins very quickly and being off-center causes the controller to shake, sort of like a washing machine with all the clothes in the same side of the basket. Nintendo doesn't use this method for it's rumble feature, so they avoided the lawsuits for both using the technology or being charged for reverse engineering products get it in the first place.
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theflyingcow40
Posted Mar 14, 2006 5:01 pm AEST

doesn't the gamecube controller do the same thing? why aren''t they involved in this lawsuit?
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MisterHarlequin
Posted Mar 14, 2006 1:45 pm AEST

Sony had this coming because they chose to take the low road instead of the high one. Microsoft made less of a screw-up only because they decided to settle the matter out of court, thereby admitting the error. As for all the fanboyism, these two aren't the only companies that have cut corners and they won't be the last. Finally, Immersion hardly "waited" four years to sue because there was mention of this by them shortly after the Xbox came out in 2001. For people that would say, "Well, that's still too long," the company would still have to actually prove it's their tech and not something like Nintendo's. Considering that motions have to be filed, answered etc., not to mention the preliminary hearing before the trial even begins, it doesn't surprise me that the official suing didn't even happen until 2003. Sony would save themselves some pain if they would just pay the dough.
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tanman18
Posted Mar 14, 2006 1:17 pm AEST

this whole thing is is way out of line . and is probably only doing this to make sony lose money because they are going to win the nex gen wars.
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Buck_Hotep
Posted Mar 14, 2006 12:06 pm AEST

wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft really forces the issue on this by buying an even bigger stake in Immersion.
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speedemon
Posted Mar 14, 2006 9:24 am AEST

What is a force feedback feature for the playstations? what does it do?
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monsteronthego
Posted Mar 14, 2006 8:46 am AEST

you cant blame sony for trying anyways im noticing a lot of Nintendo fanboys around here that dont know two sh*t's about whats going on here i guess they havent been around long enough to see how the world works
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Paul_TheGreat
Posted Mar 14, 2006 8:32 am AEST

Sony should just go on and pay them already, they just hurting themselves.
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ReyWing
Posted Mar 14, 2006 8:30 am AEST

Sony ... hey that rhymes with phony! Anywayz, wow rumble controllers ... that feels so old school now. I'm waiting for the new technology that will connect directly into our nervous system and make us REALLY experience the game.
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SavoyPrime
Posted Mar 14, 2006 6:44 am AEST

Sony should go ahead and cough up the dough. I don't think they are gonna win this.
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jonnyjd
Posted Mar 14, 2006 6:06 am AEST

Sometimes you need to pick your battles and I'm thinkin' that Sony shouldn't have picked this one. ...then again, hindsight is 20/20.
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voyager007
Posted Mar 14, 2006 5:28 am AEST

It just keeps getting worse and worse for ole' sony. Ahh well!
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GamerDudeB3
Posted Mar 14, 2006 4:39 am AEST

not suprised at all
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dounowhatiam
Posted Mar 14, 2006 4:09 am AEST

nintendo don't have to pay crap cause they own a big part in immersion for years

heres a link check it out

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/03/13/sony_dual_shock_patent

well any way hahahahahah to sony for being the big bad wolf and think there untouchable.

they should have paid up like ms but nooooooooooo they try and get away with it what a bunch of idoits

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/03/13/sony_dual_shock_patent
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soulknight63133
Posted Mar 14, 2006 2:46 am AEST

That's funny..Sony doesn't want to pay for using someone else technology..but wants everyone sign on and pay for their "blue-ray" technology......pathetic!
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