Report: Microsoft to remove duds from Live Arcade

Older games lacking critical, commercial success could find themselves yanked; company also set to up size limit, make its own downloadable games, and fix DRM issues.

In November, Xbox Live Arcade product manager Jeremy Wacksman told GameSpot that Microsoft had no plans to cull the constantly growing catalog of games available on the Xbox 360's digital distribution service.

Plans have apparently changed. Xbox Live general manager Marc Whitten has told trade site Next-Gen in an interview that Microsoft would be "delisting" underperforming games. To become a potential candidate, a game would need to have an average Metacritic score below 65, be at least six months old, and have a conversion rate (the percentage of demo downloaders who go on to buy the full product) of less than 6 percent. Microsoft will also give a three-month heads-up when it plans to yank a game from the service.

That isn't the only change in the works, according to Whitten. The size limit for games is going up from 150MB to 350MB, and in lieu of a spring dashboard update, Microsoft is instead addressing a common complaint regarding digital-rights management (DRM) on Live Arcade games. Next month, Microsoft will release a tool that lets users consolidate all of their purchases onto their most current console.

At the moment, Live Arcade games are tied to the console on which they were purchased, so if a customer needs to replace that system or buys a new one, previously purchased Live games will only work if the user is logged onto Xbox Live with the GamerTag that originally purchased them.

Finally, Microsoft will be starting up a first-party studio devoted to developing exclusive Xbox Live Arcade games. As of press time, Microsoft representatives had not responded to GameSpot's inquiries on the subject.

196 Comments

  • PixyMisao

    Posted May 27, 2008 3:55 pm PT

    Contra and Double Dragon have been rumored to get the chop... survival of the strongest my ass! Whomever removes those games should get fired, dumped by his girlfriend of 5 years and shot in the spine... all on the same day!

  • lamprey263

    Posted May 27, 2008 3:26 pm PT

    Well, since it's being talked about in other comments, I too agree MS needs to make new & cheaper HDDs, that $180 for a 120 GB HDD is too much, for $180 one could easily get a 500 GB external HDD, maybe even a 750 GB external HDD if you shop right.

  • Hvac0120

    Posted May 27, 2008 9:11 am PT

    @Irve: Agreed. $100 for a frickin wireless card? That's outrageous! Sure, you can get some of these things a LITTLE cheaper on Ebay, but it's not how cheap you CAN get them. It's the HIGH cost at retail that causes a problem.

    The wireless cards and HDD's are 2 1/2 years old technology. There should have been a price cut somewhere between launch and now, but there hasn't. Microsoft won't cut the price because they haven't sold enough units. But the reason they haven't sold enough units is because the cost is too high. I think they would make their money if they just sucked it up and cut the prices.

  • Irve

    Posted May 27, 2008 7:55 am PT

    jmcclure :

    if that's you defence of the HDD cost
    then
    i'm all ears as to why the Wi-Fi adaptor cost 5 times the cost of a normal one !!
    MS wants some extra spends ! that's all it is

  • Irve

    Posted May 27, 2008 7:53 am PT

    jmcclure :
    that's a crock .....
    those enclosures are standard for all Xbox pros and elites ... and then there is a standard Notebook drive in there .. it is a
    rip off !!!
    the1stmoonfly ... i'm with you buddy !

  • EnigManic

    Posted May 27, 2008 12:45 am PT

    These all sound like great suggestions from a marketing point of view. But it would be nice to see a price-cut on the 120GB HDDs. Especially since hard drives typically cost about a dollar per gig.

  • neomana

    Posted May 26, 2008 6:49 am PT

    Evolution at its finest in my opinion, survival of the strongest games. Looking forward to seeing what microsoft come up with to take there place!

  • the1stmoonfly

    Posted May 26, 2008 2:44 am PT

    I dont see how jmcclure can defend MS's expensive HDD. They designed the console, if their design has lead to the storage devices being expensive then its their fault. This is the same thing Nintendo do on the N64, bringing out a load of accessories that were too expensive. They should have simply allowed the 360 to utilize a standard HDD that the user can upgrade as they see fit (just as with the PS3). Any security concerns can then easily be solved by HDD formatting for the 360 via XBL. Theres no excuse, its MS's fault the HDD is too expensive.

  • thejoker727

    Posted May 25, 2008 6:26 pm PT

    man_alive you are right! how can we get digital stuff if our 13gb hard drives fill up overnight and the 120 gigs are--guess what--$180!!!!!!!!

  • jmcclure

    Posted May 25, 2008 4:10 pm PT

    man-alive: You CAN redownload the games onto a new HDD, thats what the article is saying. MS is trying to make that process EASIER.

    MS does not jack up the price of their hard drives, believe it or not. The cost it takes to make an OEM drive into a 360 compatible one (Namely the enclosure) and the costs for packaging and retailing the drives, which are comparitively low volume sales anyways because of the relatively small number of people on the market for one add up to higher prices relative to oem drives. If you need more storage look no further than ebay, you can buy all manner of xbox HDDs there for much less than retail.

    But in the end its not MS's fault that xbox 360 storage costs what it does.

  • man_alive

    Posted May 25, 2008 3:19 pm PT

    as a 360 owner, i'm getting tired of dumbass decisions at MS. -- so if my hard drive crashes, i can't redownload games i paid for? that's crap.

    also, MS wants us to move toward digital distribution of games and movies, but then they make their hard drives so expensive, the cost of the content becomes less important than the value of the remaining hard drive space.

    expensive storage is at odds with the downloading stratagy. idiots.

  • jmcclure

    Posted May 25, 2008 2:53 pm PT

    btmn: man calm yourself, this is not a big deal at all. xbox live arcade games that suck REALLY DO SUCK! theres no point in hosting these games that nobody gives a crap about when you can just make room for newer larger games that people will actually buy. i mean come on, if less than 6% of people that download the demo download the game, then its not cost effective to keep these games available forever if all people do is scroll past them. honestly, XBLA just isnt that big of a deal right now, and it looks like microsoft is about to change that. if youre trying to remake or reimage a service like XBLA, then OUT WITH THE OLD and in with the new, right? nobody is trying to stab anybody in the back here, MS is trying to move the arcade brand forward, and part of that involves cutting out dud titles that nobody gives a crap about.

  • BtmnHatesRbn

    Posted May 24, 2008 8:26 pm PT

    This a step backwards by about three decades, to when computers were just coming out. People in the those early days talked about every book in a database, where you can read it anywhere, anytime. When the Internet took off from 1992 till 1995, other things were promoted that led to the development of things like eBay and amazon.com and even this site here, which was an off-shoot of EGM and went under the name videogames.com. The idea was get your information or products, anywhere, at anytime. Now, though, it seems like Apple and Microsoft have decided to yank games that what? Just take up some disk space? Oh, please. Apple pulled games off of the iTunes Store two months ago (like Vortex) and it's nowhere to be found. Also, certain music and TV shows have been quietly pulled. Since I'm not rich (I'm lying) I don't buy everything within eye-shot of myself, but wait and come back. It's called motivation, otherwise I'd just sit around all day, smoking cigs and watching Captain Kangaroo. (So don't tell me I have nothing to do.) This seriously is a big fracking blow to the evolution of human computing, and should be a bigger story actually. It would take really nothing to leave these on a hard drive on a server just taking up less than a few hundred megabytes. I mean, if a library had this kind of attitude, they'd be no books left.

    However, if this was a traditional store, how would it work? Profit from sales keeps the lights on. Case in point: WOW! Multimedia Superstore in Las Vegas. Operated from Nov. '95 till May '06 under Tower Records, and from May '06 till March '07 under a liquidation firm. Most of the stock of WOW! was artsy-fartsy DVDs, LPs, high-end blank media, artsy-fartsy magazines, over-priced toys, and more artsy-fartsy books. They wanted people to "hang-out" instead of "buy" and these WOW! stores (not just the one in Vegas) put Tower Records out of business, because nobody was buying, but the idea that, at anytime of their hours of operation, that I cold walk in there and buy a copy of Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter on a brand-new DVD was just awesome. But I was one out of thousands, and when most of the inventory doesn't move, no money's made, and the lights don't stay on.

    So, which way should Microsoft (and Apple) go? Since it's digital storage, and only one copy of the file is needed on one server's hard disk somewhere (hell, it could even be stored on a DAT and only be accessed upon purchase, using no power at all for archiving till accessed), we all know Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot, which will be un-noticed until they pull something like Castlevania or the like. Then all the websites like this will complain and people will be like, "DUDE! That was Symphony of the Night! Why'd you pull it?" And this will be the response (taken from SNK in 1999), "You all talk about a particular game with zeal, and we provide it, but you all don't buy it, and we pull it, and then you whine about it. So either put up or shut up." Not SNK's exact words, but it is in the editorial of an old issue of Tips & Tricks from 1999. And it's a good point.

    Personally, leave the fracking games on-line for us to buy anytime, anywhere, and be a little Marxist about it, knowing that we'll get around to getting the games over the next few years.

  • crimped

    Posted May 24, 2008 7:11 pm PT

    hmmmm, not good :/

  • somberfox

    Posted May 24, 2008 3:29 pm PT

    If I were a 360 owner I'd be ticked off.

    I don't need someone else deciding for me what games I can and can't choose from to buy. I have an unconventional taste, maybe I'd prefer to pick games that I like, not games that critics like.

  • cooldude03

    Posted May 24, 2008 1:15 pm PT

    So that means if I'm one of the suckers that liked an underperformed title and my hardrive become corrupt then I cannot redownload the title I purchased that sounds like a screwjob to me. Everyone buying and downloading Xbox Originals pay attention because all those will be on this list.

  • Megavideogamer

    Posted May 24, 2008 11:27 am PT

    They might a well as offer them all as a last chance package deal, or a "throw in" for having a new Gold account

  • makemeweak

    Posted May 24, 2008 9:54 am PT

    This is all great news! I'm especially excited that MS will be devoting a first party studio to XBLA.

  • Jedilink109

    Posted May 24, 2008 12:02 am PT

    So...wait does this mean that if I get a new system and have demos and stuff on my hard drive from the previous one, it'll let me play my stuff on the new system without causing more problems or anything? If it's like THAT, then that's cool. As long as if I get a new system it lets me use stuff on the hard drive that I previously downloaded while using the old system.

  • JimBurber

    Posted May 23, 2008 7:52 pm PT

    I agree with hvac about a search feature... Wonder why they haven't set one up yet? nobody wants to see any of these dissapear for good! that will make future gamerscore rakers sad!

  • lamprey263

    Posted May 23, 2008 3:45 pm PT

    If they're getting rid of the games to cut down on menu load times then that's a crap excuse... try this: STICK TO TEXT (NO ICONS!!!)!!!

  • x-2tha-z

    Posted May 23, 2008 2:04 pm PT

    Good news on the DRM fix but honestly, it should've been fixed a long time ago.

  • Hvac0120

    Posted May 23, 2008 1:18 pm PT

    If Microsoft would put in better filters and a search engine, the crowding wouldn't be as big of a problem. It's the fact that they force you to scroll through an entire list of items alphabetically and that is what takes so long. It upsets me that they haven't added a search feature for the entire Marketplace.

  • advandam

    Posted May 23, 2008 1:15 pm PT

    great idea, i was astounded when i bought my elite how many random arcade game demos were on it that'll i'll never play! still i think it's the little games that make XBL great, they break up play between bigger games perfectly. i can't wait for Bionic Commando to come out, that looks awesome fun. personally i think xbox live is a bit untapped by MS, i think it has moe potential and i agree with others that the film download system is painful!!

  • grigjd3

    Posted May 23, 2008 12:47 pm PT

    There dropping games because of the load time for the large menus of xbox live for many users and the poorly selling titles crowd out the menus that include the titles that sell. For instance, if person A tells person B to check out game 1 and person B goes looking for game 1 but it's in the middle of a list of 10,000 or so titles, person B may well just give up on looking for game 1.

  • dannyatkinson

    Posted May 23, 2008 12:44 pm PT

    My Issue with DRM is actually the Movies. If I start watching a movie and have to stop and go do something else. Life happens you know.
    Anyway if I try to watch that movie tomorrow it will not play.
    That is unacceptable.

  • The_Rayzor

    Posted May 23, 2008 12:20 pm PT

    When does the spring dashboard update come?

  • Agreb91

    Posted May 23, 2008 11:36 am PT

    I really hope they will fix the DRM issues.

  • radar2670

    Posted May 23, 2008 11:33 am PT

    DRM change is great news for the arcade titles. Any word yet on if this will also affect DLC as well?

  • ashuncc2

    Posted May 23, 2008 11:31 am PT

    First party aracde releases and DRM issues should be good news.

  • teirdome

    Posted May 23, 2008 10:54 am PT

    They're only being delisted, not deleted entirely. I'm sure you will always be able to redownload titles you have purchased.

    I'm hoping that they won't remove Aegis Wing. If you're on XBL, you owe it to yourself to go download Aegis Wing. Oh yeah, it's free.

  • Get_Shorty

    Posted May 23, 2008 10:05 am PT

    If the games, after they announce are going to be "delisted", become suddenly popular (that's a big "if") would they still throw them in the trash?

  • snarple_basic

    Posted May 23, 2008 10:02 am PT

    Im with dragonsama they dont hold a lot of server space. Also for me and that shrimpy 20gb hard drive are preventing me from buying a lot of live games!!! They should bring down the price of the 120gb because there is no way im paying $190 for 120gb's thats a joke!!! Also this is going to make me think twice on buying any games now since I really cant depend on deleting them off my hard drive and later download them when I do want them. Its nice there going to give a 3 month notice but they better keep that promise for all content they plan on deleting off there service, not just live games. Bring down the price of the 120gb hard drive and I would have no problem at all with this decision, till then im not paying more then a $1 a gb for a hard drive, and that definitely keeps me from downloading xbox originals in the future.

  • jknight5422

    Posted May 23, 2008 9:57 am PT

    "jknight5422 you fail at life if you think TMNT is too hard, seriously, you need some practice or you should probably just stop playing video games altogether." --angelGP32

    What the hale? I don't want to pay $10 to be frustrated. Maybe if it was $5. Give up video games? Yeah, right.

  • wahsu_1

    Posted May 23, 2008 9:36 am PT

    DRM issue and 1st-party studio is the better news I guess.
    No update and removing titles, kind-of a bummer.

  • Hvac0120

    Posted May 23, 2008 8:59 am PT

    I'm glad that they are cleaning out the "trash"

    However, if I own a game that has been "delisted," I better be able to download that game if I need to make space for something else at some point. I only have so much storage space on my 20GB HDD.

  • thegame1980

    Posted May 23, 2008 7:40 am PT

    I agree with the move and this kind of "house cleaning" happens in business all the time. From record labels dropping under performing artists to baseball teams dropping players. If you can't cut the mustard then you gotta go. It just holds back the performance as a whole not to mention looks bad on your resume.

  • darkride66

    Posted May 23, 2008 7:38 am PT

    @ CharlieFubar. And Puzzle Quest. Puzzlequest is awsome.

  • CharlieFubar

    Posted May 23, 2008 7:31 am PT

    I agree with the move - there is alot of crap on 360 live. howabout we remove all puzzle games except for lumines and the one with the fish (my gf likes that one)

  • dragonsama

    Posted May 23, 2008 7:20 am PT

    Why pull anything at all? I mean these games are not taking up a lot of server space anyways. it does not make sense!

  • darkride66

    Posted May 23, 2008 7:00 am PT

    nickelarcade "more castle crashers and dishwasher, and less joust and yaris."
    Blasphemy! Joust is a fantastic game. When the 360 first launched I finished King Kong right away, beat COD2, couldn't stand Perfect dark. Joust was the only game I played for months. My friends mocked me a bit because I had this new, top o the line system that cost a fortune, hi-def projector, so on and all I did on it was play Joust. It's a classic.

  • Proman84

    Posted May 23, 2008 6:42 am PT

    "To become a potential candidate, a game would need to have an average Metacritic score below 65". 65 is a pretty high cutoff mark, actually. I mean we are not even talking 40 here. 64 is not that terrible.

  • nickelarcade

    Posted May 23, 2008 6:29 am PT

    more castle crashers and dishwasher, and less joust and yaris.

  • jcloverboy

    Posted May 23, 2008 6:26 am PT

    would love if they started to make most if not all XBLA game achievements to be offline.

    Try finding enough people to play Wits & Wagers online to make 50 games played...just looks bad.

  • Thing2

    Posted May 23, 2008 6:25 am PT

    now if they'd just let us remove some old XBLA games from our Played Games list I'd be happy. I have auto-downloads turned on and I've literally played every single XBLA game out there but, only bought a few. It's a pain scrolling through 100+ games when a majority of them were demo's and I have no acheivements for....

  • Mindchamber

    Posted May 23, 2008 6:24 am PT

    Xbox originals needs to bring on more obscure titles. Say like Metal Chaos, puting up popular titles that Im sure most people already have seems redundant.

  • zgreenwell

    Posted May 23, 2008 6:23 am PT

    I would also hate to have developed the XBLA game that gets the honor of being removed first. Of course as bad as some of those are, those developers should already be ashamed.

  • Thing2

    Posted May 23, 2008 6:22 am PT

    I'm sure they will, I would think it's similar to Steam where you can log in anywhere on any PC and have access to all your stuff

  • zgreenwell

    Posted May 23, 2008 6:21 am PT

    "Next month, Microsoft will release a tool that lets users consolidate all of their purchases onto their most current console."

    I'm excited about that one and can't wait to get it.

  • VirtualTofu

    Posted May 23, 2008 6:15 am PT

    Microsoft had better allow us to play XBLA games we already own on the 720 or I'm not buying a 720. I got 20 games so far. I'm not rebuying games.

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