Eve Online dev laying off 100+

MMOs in general are getting hit.  No one likes to pay to play.  And Eve is getting a little long in the tooth, heck my machine is circa 2006 and would run it fine,

it kinda reminds me of another halo but instead inthis game the characters probably have better weapons.

@danielkennedy91 Woah woah woah sonny jim! Haze I'll agree with, but don't you dare bring the name of Resistance in to the mix. Dear God.

@jahjeremy: You essentially hit it straight forward, I am no longer willing to put the effort in explaining on this site any longer, but for you +1's an all three posts, you hit it, but there is alot more. I played for six months to realize the ultimate end game.

Good luck to all the unemployed dev's. Its rough out there.

"Isn't this kind of the whole concept behind MMOs? I think the question is whether you enjoy the duping process" LOL, true enough jahjeremy.

"I'm just hoping Dust 514 doesn't end up being a disappointment." I am 100% certain that Dust 514 is going to fail miserably. There is a reason no company has attempted this kind of PC to console crossover involving different games and mechanics (e.g. MMO and FPS). Because it is bound to go down in flames like...er....IT Alliance. In your PC MMO, do you want to rely on some external console jockey for anything at all, much less a core mechanic of taking over territory (e.g. planets)? Nope. That's why it will be dead on arrival, not to mention that with the CCP staff cuts it will likely be very buggy and, judging by recent releases, unfinished.

"One of the reasons I stopped playing EVE was I couldn't shake the feeling I was being duped for my money." Isn't this kind of the whole concept behind MMOs? I think the question is whether you enjoy the duping process. It can be pretty fun to tackle a raid/dungeon with a bunch of friends in games like WoW. It is light but fun, and there isn't much of a death penalty. Gate camping, waiting for your skills to train in real time, permanently losing months worth of work in a micro-second, going through 28 gates to reach your destination, listening to jacka$$es rambling on vent (e.g. the Eve experience), running the same mission for the 50th time...not so much fun to be found there unless your definition of fun includes extreme boredom and frustration.

I played Eve for awhile and came to the conclusion that it is a completely broken game. Old time players have access to Death Star ships like supercarriers and titans, against which lesser ships have little chance. How fun is it to warp into a zone and lose the ship you spent weeks or months grinding for to a swarm of fighters or a titan death ray? There is zero skill involved in this. Plus, PvP that wasn't about sov pretty much boiled down to gate camping where 30 people insta-pop a shuttle.

@Nvidia400 Its not supposed to be easy...

@Arcturuss How do you pay for the ships you lose in PvP? All isk making endeavors in EVE are essentially some sort of grind. Not to mention the months it can take to learn one skill... only to improve the shield boost on one type of ship by 5%. EVE is a cash-cow for CCP, that's what it is essentially designed to be. All else is secondary. Unfortunately for CCP some of their gameplay elements have made it far to niche of a cash-cow to support their overly lofty goals. One of the reasons I stopped playing EVE was I couldn't shake the feeling I was being duped for my money. That's a strange feeling to get from a game, but none the less I had it.

I played EVE for a year and eventually it just became more like a second job... that I have to pay for, hmmm??? EVE has some amazing features, does some things very well and differently than other games, which is to be commended. In the end though when I pay that much for a game it has to be fun and to me, EVE just isn't. It is a niche game and it always will be.

Grind? So many people talking about Eve that never got into the true game. The PvP.

I actually loved EvE, however the grind was too grueling for people with real lives offline. I found myself staring at years of time and money in a game. Ridiculous.

"DUST 514 is a console-based hybrid massively multiplayer online first-person shooter set within the EVE universe and will interact directly with EVE Online." Consolization = FPS... Wondrous... I expect this indeed doesn't disturb WoD development, I'm eager to this game see the light of day... Or the dark of night, I don't really know what to use in this case.

i still think they should wait for the next gen console before releasing Dust otherwise it may end up like Haze or resistance (games that easily forgettable)

I've played Eve sporadically but never gotten very far. I've come to understand that it's just not a game for everyone but you know that's okay. There are lots of people who absolutely love it as it is. Instead of trying to force Eve to fit what I want I'd rather another company step up and offer a Privateer/Elite style MMO, one that's focused on story, character, and space dogfighting. I've seen a few companies try but they never seem to get it right.

EVE is so hard to play and the tutorial doesn't help much. If only it was a little bit easier...

I don't understand this...they feel they are running too thin. So they plan to lay off 120 people and then say they will continue with smaller teams. So doesn't this mean they are now even "thinner"? I don't think CCP is being honest with us -- which apparently wouldn't be the first time.

I'm just hoping Dust 514 doesn't end up being a disappointment. It looks pretty good, but in the back of my mind I keep thinking about Haze.. I know the games will be completely different, but part of me just has a bad feeling. I'll have to wait to see some more I think.

Well if Dust sells on ps3 and sony like what they see maybe sony might buy the company and it can happen.

I'm playing EVE-Online since 2006 (without giving a break), the main reason that CCP has cutting their expenses is not the project refounding, its because they have pissed off lots of EVE-Dedicated players at this summer with their useless and forced game expansion and its upgraded (for us down-graded) mechanics . Nearly 20.000 players has been un-subscibed from eve at the release of Incarna expansion, we players warned the CCP that we dont want WOW content in EVE and this game isnt a Blizzard MMO , at WOW like MMO's you serve a content to the players and its isnt important that the players will like it or not, they force and wait the players to adapt it. In EVE the things are not like it, we shape the entire EVE universe, we players produce every single thing in the game you bought (except the skill books , and %5 of those skill books are provided by player raids on "plexes / dungeons too") as a result of this forcing , we EVE players warned the Hilmar (CEO of CCP) that we dont want this contents and expansion, we said to him that we want them to focus on EVE online Mechanics and Ships and Combat (new ships, new weapons, ect ect) cause Eve online is all about WAR, CCP have wasted their 16 month for a expansion that %99 of eve players against it. Now their workers paying the failure of Hilmar, he should be the one to be fired not that fellow programmers.Shame to CCP.

eve online? what's that?

Micaelis13: "the problem essentially lies with labor and their inflated bargaining power." Oh really. As I understand it, American real wages haven't increased since the 1970s. Your CEOs pay themselves 'performance bonuses' that seem to be based on how fast they can drive a company to bankruptcy. Heck, your economy is flat out collapsing. Not that I care that much. If your country really shatters into 50 neo-feudal dictatorships as so many of your Republicans want, it can only benefit the rest of us. But, Atlanta, Georgia is, to my knowledge, the HQ of White Wolf, and they better not be firing people there for CCP's mistakes.

mmos suck anyway. Those 100+ better get working on some real games.

CCP had it coming to them. After they changed a bunch of stuff for the 'better' of EVE, when it had the complete opposite effect on the player base. EVE is still the best MMO out there imo. Get back to it CCP, fix EVE's many bugs, no more patches that fixes the patch that broke the last patch. WE want bug fixes and a thorough cap ship rebalancing and most of all more content. T3 battlecruisers anyone??

Dust 514 not for PC ? when did it happen ? it was announced for PC back then

3. The missions are horribly designed. A typical scenario: accept mission, fly to room, encounter a mob of red crossmarks, pop all without getting popped, return to station, complete mission, repeat. There is also no sense of progression to combat. It's the same offering ad nauseum. 4. Is there even a storyline behind what you see in the trailers? The movies that CCP presents to its audience are epic, though once you enter the universe you can't help but to notice how stale it all is. The game needs theatrical appeal - and the potential is abudant for it. Why has CCP not capitalized here? I'm sure more players could come up with all sorts of annoying aspects to the game and why it fails to maintain its appeal in the long-term. I certainly wish CCP the best and hope that they can better develop this title that shines with so much potential, if only it were so...

@chibi-acer: Layoffs are inevitable in a labor market where wages are NOT FLEXIBLE and a corporation is reporting net losses (I'm assuming this, as I can't seem to find the corporate income statement online). You can critique the "corporate system" all you want - the problem essentially lies with labor and their inflated bargaining power. Onto Eve Online: 1. The leveling system in Eve is extremely restrictive and super expensive to casual players at higher levels. Having to shuffle out billions of credits for skillbooks becomes old, frustrating, and detractive (if not impossible for many players). Why has this not been fixed? It's punishing to the players that have been with the system the longest, those whom you would think are most deserving of reward. Apparently not so... What incentive is there to stick with the game over a long term period when it essentially punishes you the further along you are? It's no wonder so many people drop out after having built up a significant time period of gameplay. 2. The insurance system is also busted. For how often you're likely to get popped, your lost ships are compensated at a small fraction of the price you originally paid for the ship + equipment. Player-built corporations are unreliable as a form of compensation, as there is no real sense (or motive) of responsibility to anyone in the game. ...

Typical corporate thinking. "We're doing too much, so let's do it with less people." Brilliant... >_

WoD sounded a lot more interesting, but who knows, maybe development wasn't panning out that spectacularly? Dust looks like it might be fun for a little while, but too much like just another shooter, in a market that's overflowing with shooters.. in any case, sad to hear that CCP isn't doing as well as I'd thought.

Dust looks awesome.

Yikes that can't be good, I guess that's what they get for becoming soo greedy. Now they loss so much players, they don't have enough funding.

Ugh that sucks. I was kind of looking forward to WoD:O

great game one of the few mmos i like for content, but the leveling system bothers me in the sense that i can never catchup to anybody playing before me, they will always be head of me stat/skill wise. the veteran players progress is staggering now, and coming in as a newb knowing you need 6 years just to be where that person is now, and by then they would be another 6 years ahead of you... 3 new game engines now and still no avatars

World of Darkness is all that I really care about from CCP at the moment. I mean, I'm looking forward to Dust 514 but I could go without it. EVE has been long dead to most anybody (new players included) unless your a long term hardcore player or have friends in the right places. I know it's their cash cow, but World of Darkness sound so much more promising. MMOs need a fresh take ... and now we have to finally wait a little longer for one.

@SolidTy its an MMO style shooter, without monthly sub :D (I checked PSBlog)

Sucks to hear about the layoffs. Sad to hear about the WoD mmo sliding back. I suppose the ony MMO I'm looking forward to now is TERA online

I started playing eve about 5 years ago and just stopped with this last expansion. I used 3 PCs and a laptop to play and I'm not buying new video cards just to play the game. The client won't even run on my laptop anymore because of the new shaders. So I've given up the game. I never had any interest in Dust. I can't play FPS games. Third person, I would have been interested.

Eve Online and The Matrix Online are the only two MMORPGs I've ever played and enjoyed, and I left them both for the same reason: The subscription price was killing me. Still hoping to get back into Eve, just hoping it will still be there when I can afford it, unlike The Matrix Online :-(

Damm, I was really looking forward to WoD... :((( Them you Dust 514 and EvE :S

The game was way too boring for me personally. It really felt more like a job then a game. I'm normally into that hardcore strategy stuff. I love Hearts of Iron series, big into RTSs etc... but this one felt more like being an accountant then a space explorer.

@Unholy123 EVE has grown in last couple years. So how can you say let it die? Complete ignorance on your part.

@NoodleFighter - well i tried, but that game is not available for all countries yet (i hope it will be later, at least for South America). @Unholy123 - EVE is a complex game that has his portion of the market because not every people is satisfied with a game that you only have to shoot things until they die, and then go to the next one. You never played X game series right? (X2 the threat, X3 reunion, etc..)

Heres a crazy thought how about you let the dead horse EVE actually die that games so boring it makes spreadsheets look exciting and interactive... why not use those resources to make something fresh and new and actually attract people to your products instead of begging people to stay on EVE. EVE's is one of those few games that can take the the most amazing place to explore (the universe) and make it dull as paint. + I wish they'd stop acting like their games in good health reaaaaaaaally? You think massive multi-account botters running rampant 24/7+ an ingame economy so #%#ed up it makes real life sub-prime mortages look sensible and the fact you basically are down to begging people to rejoin with some new low fee yet again Well then you company deserves it's loss of profits but the only people who deserve to lose their jobs are the head's for such a piss poor allocation of time and money case in point : a monocle really? boy if I was some ass who's email stated "screw the fans they don't know what they want we've got to push this ingame store" I'd feel like a right ass and everyone else should expect to see this guys head on a chopping block but apparently not which kinda say's everything about why you companies in such a state.

This is a dark day for World of Darkness and the people that were laid off.

@yoda101280 ever considered playing Black Prophecy?

Is this White Wolf's WoD MMO? I didn't knew this was still being produced.

If EVE added a more twitch based control scheme, better quality PvE content and a more forgiving death system, they might actually attract more business. I played EVE for a while and those things were the stand outs that made the game boring for me. Clicking to fly around is just not good for a space game, having everything automated was also not preferable but I could live with that if I at least had full control of my ship. Then there's the death system, which basically kills any chance of a casual player sticking with the game. I play casually as my work schedule/life doesn't allow for much more. The death system in that game made me hesitant to ever try some of the more fun things like exploring low sec' space b/c I don't have time to earn the isk to replace expensive ships and equipment when I die. I was looking forward to Jumpgate Evolution as they seemed to be going in a direction I was wanting but that game is pretty much dead at this point. The space genre is pretty wide open for the MMO space, surprised no one really makes anything for it, EVE is like the only thing out there and I don't like EVE.