Gamers log 2 billion hours on Xbox Live

 @queuing_for_PS4  Please don't take credit for someone saying you were smart.  Don't take credit for anything.

I think 96augment was responding to your repeated claims that ninjaroach81 was an "idiot".

I know, I know logic and reasoning is not one of your strong suits.  It's been proven repeatedly on this thread.  This reply will no doubt fall on deaf (and dumb?) ears...

 @queuing_for_PS4  @ninjaroach81  He seems pretty smart to me. At the very least, he's articulate.

 @queuing_for_PS4  Wow dude.  Just wow.

Google "deep breathing".  It'll help.  Keep a sack around, too, as I fear you are hyperventilating.

 @queuing_for_PS4  @ninjaroach81 Good Lord, you certainly can go on for a long time about stupid crap.

 @queuing_for_PS4  You're posting on a public board.  If you want to have a private conversation with someone, then send them a private message.  Otherwise, you're going to have to deal with people responding to your posts that you may not agree with.

 @FAIL_TR0LL  Thanks, dude!  I know I got a bit snippy toward the end, but I usually try to stay neutral and logical.

 @ninjaroach81  @queuing_for_PS4 Now THAT was an entertaining conversation. Pixel and Ninja should be commended for their attempt to discuss logic and reason with a blind fanboy (I know, I know...reading and comprehension is hard stuff, queuing_for_PS4). I just wanted to let you all know that your arguments didn't fall on deaf ears.

 @queuing_for_PS4  Actually, Pixel was the one who first brought up the point of Sony possibly charging for online play; I just happened to agree with him, which I'm allowed to do, seeing as this is a public forum.  Now, seeing as this was a story about Xbox Live and not a hardware thread, the discussion that ensued regarding the possible future of PSN was totally on topic.

 @PixelAddict  @queuing_for_PS4 He wouldn't know that because he just created his profile today, probably just to bash on Xbox Live.  He's just a trolling Sony fanboy.

 @queuing_for_PS4  Dude you're mental.  I'm no one system's fanboy, if you paid attention on these boards you'd see that.

You'd also see where I have said numerous times that Demon's Souls is my favorite game this gen.  By a mile.

 @queuing_for_PS4  You're right, they are just guesses, and we've never stated otherwise.  You're the one who's telling us we're dreaming, stating that Sony will never, ever, ever charge for online play because they said they wouldn't, that we're totally wrong for thinking like that, and that's the end of it.  We're just offering our opinions, that's all.

 @queuing_for_PS4  You've clearly started drinking. Yeah, I'll take the high road and call it that.

 @PixelAddict  @queuing_for_PS4 Yeah, I liked that one, too.

 @queuing_for_PS4  One?  One is "more and more"?

 @queuing_for_PS4  I'm not the one who's dreaming.  Look, despite what you might think, no company (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) is in the video game business out of the kindness of their hearts; they're in the business to make money.  Now, all I'm doing is pointing out that Sony may, at some time in the future, decide it's a good idea to start charging for online gaming; I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that it's a possibility.  Your continued refusal to accept that that might happen means you're the one who's dreaming.  Like I said earlier, just because Sony said that they won't charge for online gaming doesn't bind them to never do it;  they can reverse that decision at any time.

 @ninjaroach81  this is why I game on steam and wii, ps3 and wii U because of free on line gaming. Only fools would pay for a free service

 @queuing_for_PS4  @ninjaroach81 From a business standpoint, charging for online gaming would be much more profitable than spending the money developing new games and hoping people buy them.  Now, I agree that Sony may end up adding services to PSN Plus, but they would have to be services that would entice significant numbers of users to make the jump to PSN Plus; no guarantees, there.  Bottom line: unless you have an inside line to the Sony corporate board in Tokyo, you shouldn't say that PSN online gaming will always be free.

 @queuing_for_PS4  @PixelAddict Blind ignorance of the fact that whatever a company has said in the past does not bind them to what they may or may not do in the future.  Yes, Sony may have said that they won't charge for online gaming, but if next week the Sony board tells SCE that they have to start charging for online gaming, then SCE will start charging for online gaming.  Corporations change their minds all the time.  Remember, Sony's not a charity; they're around for one reason, and one reason only: to make money.

 @queuing_for_PS4  Um. But, no.

I don't think ninja means to say he knows the future.  I don't, either.  I think we're both being realistic and seeing the possibility Sony may start charging.

You are speaking in absolutes.  You seem to know "for a fact" they will not.  I cannot see how you can possibly be so confident.  Blind ignorance may be the only reason why.

 @queuing_for_PS4  They also said before PS3's launch that they didn't need to do Achievements; now we have Trophies.

You don't know what the future holds.  Corporate attitudes can change overnight.  If you happen to know that everything you're saying is fact, than can you let me know who's going to win the Super Bowl this year, cuz I could stand to go place a few bets...

 @queuing_for_PS4@PixelAddict Here's some numbers for you:

estimated Xbox Live members: 40 million

assume 25% are Gold members (probably low, but just for argument's sake): 10 million

1-year of Gold: $60

$60 x 10 million = $600 million per year.

You actually think Sony would turn a blind eye to that?

 @queuing_for_PS4  @ninjaroach81  @PixelAddict not a dream, man, considering the possibility of reality.  Reality is Sony hurting for revenue.  Here is revenue.

You're dreaming if you think you can go PS4 and you won't get charged for online next gen.

 @PixelAddict  @queuing_for_PS4 Yep, never took my Wii online, either; haven't even turned it on in like 2 years for that matter (oops!  Topic for another day, sorry!  :D )

I'm seeing the same arguments that cropped up after the first rumors surfaced about PSN Plus; people were saying that Sony would never charge for online services, yet they now offer a pay service.  Yes, it's optional, as is paying for Live; I'm just a Xbox Live free member, because I don't do online multiplayer (always been more interested in single-player games), and I'm able to do everything I want/need to on Live without paying for Gold!

 @ninjaroach81  @queuing_for_PS4 Ninja, you make a good point.  It seems dramatic to say "that's it we're gone!" to Sony deciding to charge for online play, but in reality where WOULD they go?

You're right.  PC gaming is the "final refuge", and I doubt most console gamers would be willing to take their multi-plat play to the PC (which is getting less and less multi-plat love anyways!).

And the Wii U?  That's no refuge.  I never once played online on the Wii.  It was too...ridiculous.  Friend code?  WTF?

And here I am bringing up multi-plat, too.  Oops!

 @PixelAddict Agreed, sorry about that; just mentioned it because he brought it up as a point, was just responding to it.

 @queuing_for_PS4  @PixelAddict Well, of course PS3 gamers prefer PSN; it's their network!  As for gamers in general, it looks like the consensus is that Live is the better online experience, while they like PSN because online play is free.  If Sony does go "pay-to-play", where will they go?  PC gaming?  That's a lot more expensive than you might think (I know, because I used to be an exclusive PC-gamer; you spend a lot more on hardware in the long run).  Wii U?  That's still a big unknown at this point, since it just launched; we'll have to wait and see what kind of experience Nintendo Network will offer.

 @queuing_for_PS4  @ninjaroach81  Talk of exclusives is so off topic from the conversation at hand.

Speak of online and the future of online services, and we'll get back on track. 

 @PixelAddict  @queuing_for_PS4 I for one won't be purchasing a PS4 if they decide to charge for online play. I think MAYBE they will decide to make party chat a PS Plus exclusive feature, but that's about it. I really doubt they will make basic online play a paid service, when it was free on PS3, PC and Wii, and will continue to be free on Wii U and PC in this next generation. Microsoft is the only one charging for it, and it's lame.

 @queuing_for_PS4  Your logic is terrible.

 @queuing_for_PS4  Hey man, I own the PS3, too.  Don't think I'm only all about the Xbox.

Both consoles were a success.  Sony is missing an opportunity with PSN, and I think they know it...

 @queuing_for_PS4  @PixelAddict All talk of the PS4 is pure speculation at this point.  Nothing has been confirmed, it's all rumor at this point. Same goes for the next Xbox; a lot of rumors, nothing definite.

 @queuing_for_PS4  @PixelAddict I gotta go with PixelAddict on this one; there's no way Sony can ignore the hundreds of millions of dollars that Live generates through subscriptions every year.  Like he pointed out, gamers have proven they are willing to pay for it, even though they may not like it.  As for the multi-platform game issue, that's the reality of today's market; the days of a console's library being made of primarily of exclusives are dead and buried.

 @queuing_for_PS4  Dude, don't go all fanboy on me.  Think about this logically.

Sony must covet the many millions Microsoft makes on Live.  It also should be noted Sony has not been profitable and must be looking for ways to create revenue.

Add to this logic the fact Microsoft has proven people will pay for online service, and it is naive to think Sony has not at lease seriously discussed this internally.

 @queuing_for_PS4  I think Sony did it right with Plus, but I worry it will become a standard for next gen for online play.  $60 per year gets you online play and some free games given out.

I've said from the beginning I thought PSN Plus was a gateway program to bridge us gamers to paying for online.  I'd be shocked if they missed the opportunity to charge for it next gen.

I hate paying for one.  I'll really hate paying for two.