The Old Republic Flopping Bigtime

I've seen this trend a lot among people who don't understand how MMO releases work. SWTOR isn't flopping. You'd have to be willfully ignorant of market trends to say this game is flopping.

Here are some facts:

1. SWTOR had the largest western release of any MMO in the history of the industry.

2. SWTOR is currently the 3rd largest MMO in the world only about a million subs behind Aion and SWTOR does not have an international release yet.

3. SWTOR currently has 1.3m subs as of the recent investor's call which humiliates FFXI, Everquest, DAoC, and LotRO at their absolute best, Everquest being the largest of these capping at around 550k subs. 1.3m vs. 550k.

4. BW developers have been saying since early Dec. that SWTOR only needs 500k subs to remain profitable. They currently have almost 3x that many.

5. All MMO's since WoW experience a population crash within the first 6 months. While the box-sales of SWTOR were impressive, the Feb. investor's call stated 1.7m subs "the majority have rolled over into their recurring subscription cycle". Generous analysts have stated this meant they had about 1m recurring subs which is significantly more than a mere "majority". This means that since the Feb. investor's call SWTOR went from 1m -> 1.3m recurring subs. In other words their actual subscriber base is growing. Box sales have never, nor will ever be a barometer for subscription loss for MMOs. This is only the case when people who don't regularly play MMOs try to be an analyst in the industry.

So no, SWTOR isn't flopping. It may not have suited your fancy, and you might be one of those sad pathetic people praying for other people's failures for no discernable reason other than you're a terrible person, but if you say SWTOR is flopping, you'd be factually incorrect. EA's stock prices are a direct result of numerous things SWTOR being barely a footnote in even the most cynical analyst's bag first and foremost being Battlefield 3 underperforming, a CFO leaving the company and EA being voted worst company in America. To be honest you gamers should be nothing short of ashamed of yourselves for this because companies like Apple who take advantage of third world slave labor for their hardware, or Bank of America who helped crash the world's economy lost out to a video game company because the whiners on the internet didn't get the endings they wanted so now EA gets the limelight while companies who literally own slaves get to keep laughing all the way to the bank.

[QUOTE="jackliu239"]So many fail don't know where to start

1. Yes but don't mean it is not failing

Your definition of "failing" is irrelevant. Its not failing in the ways that matter.

2. You do know SWTOR have been released in Asia right, along with all of Europe and North America? SWTOR has pretty much hit all the market audience on planet earth already. I mean the only place that is not officially released is probably Africa. But I doubt starving Ethiopian children want to play SWTOR.

It has not. It has been released in Oceanic territories which only include Hong Kong and Singapore. It has not seen wide release in Asia. In fact its only recently seen wide-release in EU and ME.

3. SWTOR had a box sale of almost 3 million now, and the last time it was counting the sub was down to 1.3 million, that is more than a 50% drop. And this number is inflated with the free 30 days as well.

Box sales have never been an indictation of MMO health. Longevity has data 1, data 2.

4. Did they said how long do they need the 500k? 1 month? 1 year? 10 year? Judging by the amount of sub they are bleeding, I don't think they will have more than 500k by next year.

This idle speculation is not supported by recent MMO trends. I also already linked the original article and the data to support these claims.

5. LOL... I really don't know where to begin with this one... just so many fail squeezed into so few text... But please see this reference to explination http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/trends

I've said this before but torstatus only tracks player activity, not subscriptions. In the beginning of SWTOR there was a report of mean average player activity of 7 hours a day. That was the mean of all players. Of course player activity is going to trend down from there. No industry analyst uses TORstatus to trend subscription health, its just the best friend of forum trolls like you who wish to deceive people who don't understand how MMO launches work.

Apple use slave labor... lol another common misconception by hippie Americans, Apple's manufacturing plant is located in China, it is a Taiwanese company called Foxconn setting up shop in China, they are actually paying above standard wage for the Chinese workers than most of the comparable factory in that area. The reason they have lower salary compare to USA is because the labor is cheaper, they have more population, they have lower standard of living, not everyone owns a car there. But it does not mean people work as slaves, most of the labor work there have enough money for housing, food, unities and at the end of the month + left overs, most of the worker have enough money to send back to their home villages to support their elderly. And people who does not do that can keep the expandable money they earn on the leisure consumer goods.

Its inexcusable that you would be an apologist for slavery and openly lie about things like this.

China is the world's 2nd largest economy for a reason, you don't became that base on "slave" labor, in fact, it has been proven that actual force/slave labor actually have much lower productivity than willing workers. You whole notion that China is full of slaves.. Apple is using slaves is nothing but bull and ignorance to the most degree.

More apologetics for slavery. Educate yourself. You sound like a far right industrialist loon. You should be ashamed of yourself for lying to people about this.[/QUOTE]

I don't feel like spending a lot of time arguing with someone who is intentionally lying to people, so I let my sources do most of the talking.

*EDIT* One more addendum since you are apparently stupid and don't know how deep Apple is into this Foxconn slavery debaucle found here. Professor of Sociology at U.C. Berkeley does a detailed report on the gigantic percetage of of Foxconn products Apple uses (accounting for 40% of Foxconn's total income) and goes into details on the story, even explaining how he in 2010 organized an effort to get Apple to use their leverage to force Foxconn to improve their working conditions which Apple IGNORED until this story made national headlines. I think your stupidity has been made apparent to all. I'm done with you.

The only stupidity on display is anyone who thinks a Star Wars MMORPG with falling subs base in the first six months is in anyway successful.

If you can't be successful with the Star Wars IP that already has a built in fanbase then it's time to pack up your bags and quit the day job.

More people play Farmville than this lol.

[QUOTE="jackliu239"]

You poor sad person.... Again, Foxconn is NOT Apple, it is a Taiwainess company that set up shot in China that employees Chinese labor, and they pay them above average wages than the rest of the factor around there.[/QUOTE]

Read my sources, particularly the one by the Professor of Sociology at U.C. Berkeley who made Apple aware of the human rights violations going on at the factories that produce their hardware YEARS before the controversy made headlines, I'm done arguing about this, you're just a corporatist shill.

[QUOTE="jackliu239"]

And again, it is not slave labor, they are being paid the average wage, and most people have money left over for savings. How do I know this? Because I have relatives in China and I have been there myself. If you want to judge the Chinese's standard's living with what you do, that is not possible, not everyone on earth can live like you, not everyone have thier own single family 2 story houses, not everyone have a personal car, not everyone can eat meat as cheap as they eat vegi.[/QUOTE]

Oh you have relatives that live in China. I guess readers should just disregard the report I linked by the Fair Labor Association and the 2nd report I linked by U.C. Berkeley.

[QUOTE="jackliu239"] But the Chinese are doing very well by the standard of thier own living, they have come a long way since the 1960s. It is no doubt, there are cases of abuses in factories, and if you only read about them asantidote form, of course it gives you a horrible representation of what is going on, if you only read. But have you ever read about statistics? of how many wage a Chinese worker in Foxconn earns a month? And what is thier cost of rent, cost of food etc... how much do they have left over?

No you don't , becuase if you do, you can see although they don't live as well as we do in the West, but it is certianly well enough by their own standard.

[/QUOTE]

I never attacked China in general, I attacked Apple for using sweat shop labor despite being told about it. I've destroyed your nonsense position now you're trying to strawman what I actually said. Well enough eh? I guess those numerous cases recorded in the Fair Labor Association report I linked of permanent paralysis in numerous workers arms due to excessive repetitive labor is just "certainly living well enough by their own standards". Gamespot's language filter prohibits me from calling you what I really think of you.

*EDIT*

Despite my current immense loathing for you, I'm going to answer some of these questions you have about your defense of these sweat shops. This is all in the report I linked that you're too much of a coward to read:

Average working hours: 56 per week. Average extended work period without break over 3-month period: 11.5 days.

28% of respondents say their wage isn't enough to cover food. 43% say it isn't enough to pay for living accommodations. 45% say it isn't enough for basic healthcare. 60% say it isn't enough for education. Only 41.5% felt that the canteen (where they have to eat) is clean and hygienic. 78.6% feel their dormitories are crowded. 75.4% describe their work station as uncomfortable. 52.6% feel that the ventillation, air conditioning, heating and other systems are inadequate. Across all 3 factories tested over 50%, some as high as 76.1% do not feel their factory is safe to prevent injuries.

I could go on all day. And these are third world sweat shop workers making these complaints. But you're right, these ungrateful sots don't know how GOOD they have it do they? My opinion of you could not go any lower. Call me an American hippy again. If you had a shred of decency you would shuffle quietly out of this forum and never post again. But of course we both know you don't have that much integrity don't we?

And just an addon for my last stats for those unwilling to read the report, 87% of employees were employed from small towns with the majority from tiny villages. In fact, 65.1% of ALL employees were taken from small villages. These aren't city types complaining about cleanliness, inability to pay for food, lodging, healthcare or basic education for their children. These are mostly 3rd world provincials making these complaints. Can you imagine how bad things REALLY are when 3rd world VILLAGERS are complaining they can't afford to live off of the salaries provided by their corporate overlords?

Seriously, and I reiterate with emphasis. Its utterly embarrassing that EA won "worst company in America" when there are others who are SO much more deserving. Like Apple. Who undeniably, inexcusably and most importantly KNOWINGLY exploited 3rd world slave labor. If you don't think subsistence living is slavery, then I can't help you.

[QUOTE="jackliu239"]

So what you saying is, everyone in China should live like Americans, where they have health care, personal cars, a invididual condo/ single family house. Right?[/QUOTE]

Stop straw manning my position, the statistics speak for themselves.  Though I do find it VERY interesting that you just openly stated that the Chinese SHOULDN'T have basic health care.  What a schmuck.

 [QUOTE="jackliu239"]

You do know those workers came from rural areas to the city to look for jobs because they can actually get better standard of living working in factories, I mean, no one kiddnaped them from the villages and dump them into the factory and locking the dooars on them right? And als othe fact that those workers are recurited by the Foxconn on thier own free will, how does that make them slave? They didn't go to Africa, captured all the people there, and sold them on the slave market where they force them into the factory did they?[/QUOTE]

They're subsistence workers, they can't find different work because they can't afford to.  1 in 4 can't even afford to eat.  1 in 2 can't afford to living accomidations even while working 56 hours a week.  Its called wage slavery you idiot.

 [QUOTE="jackliu239"] 

That report you link, of course it shows doom and glome, because that is the whole purpuse of that report, is to "expose" to stir up things to make people aware, so do you really expect to see a fair and balanced report? Do you really expect to see that report to have anything positive to say about the benefit it brings to the workers?[/QUOTE]

 The Fair Labor Association has been universally criticized by other civil rights organizations for what is perceived as an inexcusable leniency towards worker exploitation.  If they are publishing reports on how bad things are, its because they are really, really bad.

[QUOTE="jackliu239"]

Because to your logic, if working there is so bad, where people get paid so little, where no one can afford food, or housing... why the heck would anyone want to work there? Oh and btw those workers are all volunteered, so why would they do that? If their life back home is so much better, why do they just stay at home with thier family and do farm stuff, I am sure that is so much better than slave labor.

The fact is, those workers sign up for the job on thier own free will, they know the wage, they know the risk, and they can quit any time they want. How is that slave?[/QUOTE]

They can't quit any time they want because there is no food stamps or unemployment office to help them while they get on their feet.  They are obligated to work in substandard conditions because the alternative is starvation.  Your comments reek of a sheltered middle American child with no concept of what it means to have bills to pay and obligations to meet.

[QUOTE="jackliu239"]And since the whole thing blow up, foxconn has incrase the wage to it is workers by about 400% already, I mean do you do that to slaves? Did the African slaves in America get any wage at all? Did they get 400% wage boost in 2 years?[/QUOTE]

Lmao, this part was funny.  Thanks for proving my point.  Once how bad things were got out, they had to save face.  I remember that slaves in America got a war... bloodiest conflict in American history if I remember correctly.  This kind of inhuman crap is only put to a stop when good people stand up against it.  Something you are clearly not.

[QUOTE="jackliu239"]And seriously, go repost this whole thing to this forum if you dare http://au.gamespot.com/star-wars-the-old-republic/forum/platform/pc/

Stop dicking around and post in a forum where no one visits, or are you too afraid that somone might rebuff your stupid logic.

[/QUOTE]

"This forum is now read-only on GameSpot.
To post topics or messages, please visit GameFAQs and log in using the same email and password that you use on GameSpot."

My sources speak for themselves, I'm not threatened by any idiot forum trolls.  I'm posting on Gamespot, I have no interest in becoming a part of the GameFAQs community.