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Kara's Tier List - Preliminary Discussio ...
Kara's Tier List - Preliminary Discussion 3
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- May 16, 2012 11:46 am GMTLordKarasuman posted...
I get the fact that his moves are the way they are to give him weight and presence. I GET THAT. It's just, damn it, that doesn't translate well at all to actual survival.
Well, he does get resurrection so thats pretty much extra health.
That means he can take those hits, right? - May 16, 2012 11:52 am GMTThanks for the update and I agree with all but Ma Chao, who I think is also C.
As you said his only advantage over Jiang Wei is his speed type and double jump ability.
And, personally, I don't think that's enough for him to jump up a whole tier.
And I just straight out don't use the EX move since I hate having to "waste" an item slot for the iron gauntlet.
Oh and may I request
Motonari Mori
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PSN: FunKeeJ - May 16, 2012 11:59 am GMTgwapo; I'll give Jiang Wei's C4 another look, though like 190, I don't think it'll make him better than Ma Chao. To be honest, the only chargable Charge Attack that's impressed me so far is Shingen's. However, if it ends up being a useful attack, I'll adjust the writeup for future pastebins accordingly.
Neo; you were right about Ginchiyo's C9.
GreatKiraLord; Xiahou Ba discussion? oh god oh man oh god oh man oh god oh man
oll; Of those, Ranmaru looks really close to being finished so I'll try to get his entry up fast, at least.
wehomies; Right, but generally his health is still running down in non-R1 play. While Susano'o has the advantage of Resurrection as an intrinsic, it's still annoying as hell to be dealing with the kind of continual health loss most B-rankers would scoff at.
Fun; I think Motonari is also someone who has his weapon near complete, so I guess he'll be making it into the next batch too. Hopefully.
I guess if anything, Ma Chao would be the lowest character in his tier.
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WKC: Ilse - May 16, 2012 12:02 pm GMTwehomies posted...
LordKarasuman posted...
I get the fact that his moves are the way they are to give him weight and presence. I GET THAT. It's just, damn it, that doesn't translate well at all to actual survival.
Well, he does get resurrection so thats pretty much extra health.
That means he can take those hits, right?
That's what I thought until I realized it's one-time only.
However, it seems like his one-time thing resets every time he's switch out and in I believe.
And I'd like to request Keiji Maeda since we were talking about him last night and I'd like to compare my thoughts on him with more people.
edit: also i think we should just skip xiahou ba discussion on this thread since we have one thread for that at the moment. Also, he's already deemed S+ and many even consider him the best at the moment. Don't see what that discussion would ever do for him except make people hate him even more.
edit2: Agree with Fun on Ma Chao as well. - May 16, 2012 12:03 pm GMTJust barely got done reading the Keiji discussion. I guess he'll be in the next batch too.
I'm fine with discussion of Ba, if that's what you guys want. But if you don't mind, unless someone asks me specifically on how to slap attributes on him and what weapons to avoid (ohgodstayawayfromrulerswords), I'm just gonna grimace and look away whenever he's brought up.
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WKC: Ilse - May 16, 2012 12:06 pm GMTAlmost 70% of the rosters completed.
Great job everyone, especially Kara for so much **** job.
I actually disagree with Funkee on Ma Chao.
I think his speed type actually enough to get him above C, not much much at all but still in C for having a mean of GTFO from archers and peons.
Sucks why they keep giving him the poke poke moveset while increasing the number of peons/archers. Also, I'd like to request Zhang Fei.
Thanks. - May 16, 2012 12:08 pm GMTFunKeeJ posted...
Thanks for the update and I agree with all but Ma Chao, who I think is also C.
As you said his only advantage over Jiang Wei is his speed type and double jump ability.
And, personally, I don't think that's enough for him to jump up a whole tier.
And I just straight out don't use the EX move since I hate having to "waste" an item slot for the iron gauntlet.
Oh and may I request
Motonari Mori
Ma Chao deserves a B for the fact that Jiang Wei is weaker offensively with a non elemental C3 finisher, Ma Chao having ALOT of mobility options with forward moving R1 and C3ex+Speed perk a much more reliable C6 that will rarely miss since it doesn't have the thrusting motion plus the fact that C6 is chargeable for more damage. I can get by the lack of an item slot when I can put 2 S Rank Speed Officer Abilities to offset the lack of Lion's Fang in my items. The Speed>Tech arguement plus Ma Chao's innate offensive advantages over Jiang Wei is more obvious than your type difference arguement. The only thing that sucks is that C3 ex is not JC-able.
Please do Yuan I know you'll have fun with him
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Veronica!! Veronica!! Yan ang gusto ko sa babae yung lumalaban!!!!!
-Romy Diaz R.I.P. Best Bad Boy in the Philippine Movie Industry - May 16, 2012 12:08 pm GMTYeah, we shouldn't have to talk about xiahou ba on this thread.
Firstly, as somebody said, it won't really help him since he's already deemed S+ and is seemed to be hated by so many people (though I think he's freaking awesome).
Also, I have opened up whole new thread simply for ba's weapon maximization so the discussion being on this thread is really not important. Besides, there are other untouched characters to be worked on lol. - May 16, 2012 12:25 pm GMTGreatKiraLord posted...
Yeah, we shouldn't have to talk about xiahou ba on this thread.
Firstly, as somebody said, it won't really help him since he's already deemed S+ and is seemed to be hated by so many people (though I think he's freaking awesome).
Also, I have opened up whole new thread simply for ba's weapon maximization so the discussion being on this thread is really not important. Besides, there are other untouched characters to be worked on lol.
Yeah, probably for the best since there are still like 40 characters to be analyzed.
Also, if your agility/osmosis/absorption/wind/slay/might/blast/courage setup can still 1hko most generics then that'd be the best weapon setup as of now since it still performs the same with peon/archer hordes wen with bolt and without courage. If it can't 1hko most generics then it's a no go. - May 16, 2012 12:29 pm GMTAwesome, it's getting very close to being finished.
After that, we just have to put characters in order (LIKE THAT'S EASIER LOOOL).
I want to request for Da Ji.
@Ba discussion: Let's not talk about him here. So much other crap to do that's not been talk about. What are we going to do? Put him in S+++ tier if he can 1hko generics? nah. Let's move on form Xiahou Bieber. - May 17, 2012 12:09 am GMTI'd personally like to request if you'd look into Pang De and Sima Shi when you get around to it, Karasuman.
EDIT: Sorry, I missed that Wei Yan had already been evaluated. Just noticed him on the list.
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I think it's high time we gave Ragna the Bloodedge his much needed training montage.
Also patiently awaiting Anarchy Reigns. - May 17, 2012 12:19 am GMTAlso, sorry for the double post but I have a question. I most likely missed a statement somewhere along my lurking, but I noticed you started using "Standard Six" in your character evaluations for weapons. I know it's probably something pretty simple, but what are those six?
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I think it's high time we gave Ragna the Bloodedge his much needed training montage.
Also patiently awaiting Anarchy Reigns. - May 17, 2012 12:20 am GMTArcangel22 posted...
Also, sorry for the double post but I have a question. I most likely missed a statement somewhere along my lurking, but I noticed you started using "Standard Six" in your character evaluations for weapons. I know it's probably something pretty simple, but what are those six?
It's the agility/osmosis/absorption/slay/wind/bolt.
But this standard 6 is often very flexible for changes.
However, I do feel absorption is a must on all characters. - May 17, 2012 12:38 am GMTThanks Brock.
To be perfectly honest I'd love to contribute a lot more to this list if I could in any way. However, WO3 is kinda on the backburner as I've been playing several things I count as higher priority right now (and since I also have Sengoku Basara 3 Utage, juggling two hack'n'slashes can be mind boggling to choose which to play), so I'm afraid for the most part I'll have to remain a lurker.
Although I did find something out very interesting. I played around with Xiahou Yuan since I started proficiency grinding recently and he feels like he's very, very good. Of course I could be wrong but if not for me being more curious towards Pang De and Sima Shi right now, I'd certainly request opinions on Xiahou Yuan as well.
As sort of a miniature analysis (keep in mind this playthrough was normal, I would've run chaos if I could): Xiahou Yuan is a bow user, yeah, it initially drove me away to begin with. Once I got to him in the proficiency grinding though (since I started at Wei), I was actually quite surprised at what I was treated to.
He feels like he can just destroy any crowd that stands in front of him. Even with an incomplete weapon I felt like I was keeping all the enemies away from the stationary archer while dishing out impressive damage. And whenever things got a little problematic, Wonder category + C4/C5 helped with close range combat.
Now a really fun kicker I discovered with this though is Xiahou Yuan's support abuse. By "support" I mean combining that of his R1 and EX. Utilizing these correctly two things can happen. Combo skyrocketing (which couples with his officer ability, so kinda minor bonus there), and some very useful protection. The musou management is easy because he feels so versatile and R1 lasts fairly long to begin with. Even without the EX his R1 manages to protect him fairly well although sometimes he needs to move to make sure a soldier doesn't sneak through the openings in the arrows. I managed a 2300 hit combo before I stopped (which I finished with a musou because enemies were running low).
Overall I think Xiahou Yuan has a lot of potential and I'd really like some more opinions on him. Please note once again this analysis wasn't tested to the fullest ability it could have been. I left out crucial criteria that Kara uses in the evaluation. However this is just what I thought from first time picking him up, so I figured I shared what I thought. Any feedback to support or criticize this would be awesome.
And keep up the great work Kara and everyone else contributing what they can.
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I think it's high time we gave Ragna the Bloodedge his much needed training montage.
Also patiently awaiting Anarchy Reigns. - May 17, 2012 12:48 am GMTArcangel22 posted...
Thanks Brock.
To be perfectly honest I'd love to contribute a lot more to this list if I could in any way. However, WO3 is kinda on the backburner as I've been playing several things I count as higher priority right now (and since I also have Sengoku Basara 3 Utage, juggling two hack'n'slashes can be mind boggling to choose which to play), so I'm afraid for the most part I'll have to remain a lurker.
Although I did find something out very interesting. I played around with Xiahou Yuan since I started proficiency grinding recently and he feels like he's very, very good. Of course I could be wrong but if not for me being more curious towards Pang De and Sima Shi right now, I'd certainly request opinions on Xiahou Yuan as well.
As sort of a miniature analysis (keep in mind this playthrough was normal, I would've run chaos if I could): Xiahou Yuan is a bow user, yeah, it initially drove me away to begin with. Once I got to him in the proficiency grinding though (since I started at Wei), I was actually quite surprised at what I was treated to.
He feels like he can just destroy any crowd that stands in front of him. Even with an incomplete weapon I felt like I was keeping all the enemies away from the stationary archer while dishing out impressive damage. And whenever things got a little problematic, Wonder category + C4/C5 helped with close range combat.
Now a really fun kicker I discovered with this though is Xiahou Yuan's support abuse. By "support" I mean combining that of his R1 and EX. Utilizing these correctly two things can happen. Combo skyrocketing (which couples with his officer ability, so kinda minor bonus there), and some very useful protection. The musou management is easy because he feels so versatile and R1 lasts fairly long to begin with. Even without the EX his R1 manages to protect him fairly well although sometimes he needs to move to make sure a soldier doesn't sneak through the openings in the arrows. I managed a 2300 hit combo before I stopped (which I finished with a musou because enemies were running low).
Overall I think Xiahou Yuan has a lot of potential and I'd really like some more opinions on him. Please note once again this analysis wasn't tested to the fullest ability it could have been. I left out crucial criteria that Kara uses in the evaluation. However this is just what I thought from first time picking him up, so I figured I shared what I thought. Any feedback to support or criticize this would be awesome.
And keep up the great work Kara and everyone else contributing what they can.
You're welcome.
You're always welcome to drop by and say whatever you want to say.
We need as much manpower as possible for second thoughts and doubts.
As for Xiahou Yuan, I've not tested him as of now so I can't give you any feedback >.<
Best luck Angel. - May 17, 2012 4:10 am GMTX.Yuan is pretty sick, but he has insane start-up lag in his EX. He'll be beaten to death before he can even get the move out by peon pokes on chaos. His special, though, is quite handy.
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To be fair, no one has unlimited patience, and at times this board could come close flustering the Buddha.-geekneck99 - May 17, 2012 6:17 am GMTI have been requesting that Xiahou Yuan be evaluated for quite some time. As a matter of fact I believe it was my request that put him on LordKarasumans priority list (where Xiahou Yuan has sat for too long XD). I find that using his R1 before his EX almost mitigates the problem with the Ex start up lag completely. Keeping a steady rain of arrows with Xiahou Yuans R1 and his EX while also using his C6 allows him to tear through officers and crowds of peons. His C6 is very powerful.
- May 17, 2012 6:38 am GMTWith Yuan always start with EX for invincibility now as opponents are juggled up and down with the arrows then unleash C1ex>wonder cancel once the arrow is released the arrows will still fall down then unleash your C6 have fun. IMHO for the archers the ranking goes
X.Yuan>Huang Zhong(his EX is not elemental!! and C6-6 is a chore to setup)>Ina (R1 should've activate elements, behold the last hit of S-String has no elements, C5 is like X.Yuan's scattershot but it hits once while Yuan's C6 hits a crapload of elemental shots it's not funny)
Ironic that Yuan got killed by Huang in history and Ina an esteemed archer prefers fighting in melee at least Yuan and Huang Zhong threw away their swords and stuck to the weapons they are proficient in.
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Veronica!! Veronica!! Yan ang gusto ko sa babae yung lumalaban!!!!!
-Romy Diaz R.I.P. Best Bad Boy in the Philippine Movie Industry - May 17, 2012 6:41 am GMTAbout Himiko, I'm very sure her entire C1 is Elemental if she has the R1 buff.
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"Am I... going to die?"
"... Yeah... I... think so..." - May 17, 2012 6:44 am GMTthe10thArcher posted...
C
Gyuki
Zhang Liao
Diao Chan
Alright let me try this. I believe she has a lot more potential than just a C. I've tried this in World's End, only being hit around 5-6 times (none by Orochi though), and in my fastest time around 15 min or less. Try this and let me convince you otherwise.
Diaochan
Elements: Standard Six-minus Osmosis (not really needed) + Typhoon, 2 free (preferably Echo and Might)
Items: Lion's Fang+Chimera Shell, or Iron Gauntlets (not really needed for Speed types though)
Team: one S-proficiency Speed Skill (boosts atk/def to 999 if equipped above), one free (preferably Efficacy)
Pros:
+++ As stated before, use C4-4 buff. ALWAYS. Increased movement and attack speed is amazing, as executing all of her attacks faster and cancelling them allows you to clear crowds fast, all while avoiding being hit.
[ ** ] C4->cancel is my normal go-to. It mostly hits up front but the range is great as the tornado moves forward. Buffed C4 is extremely fast and avoids back hits most of the time. Great if you're attacking incoming groups.
[ ** ] Buffed C5 has great range and is actually pretty safe. It moves you forward, avoiding nearby enemies attacking your back, and can be cancelled anytime (anywhere between the 2 elemental hits or immediately after either hits).
+ Being a Speed type already makes her good, and combined with increased movement and attack speed, potentially makes her almost uninterrupted in every string (aside from archers of course). Always cancel her attacks by jumping.
--> R1 can cancel BEFORE the drop, cancelled C4-4 (immediately mash jump button when she glows) will still buff her. Rebuffing is also pretty quick, as the increased attack speed allows you to redo C4-4 quickly.
! R1-cancelling is a good way to get near archers as R1's invincibility makes her unhittable during the swing and combined with air dash, travels a good distance.
[ * ] After jumping/air dash, Aerial C is great. It actually has better range than it looks (360, I believe), and it even catches falling/grounded enemies and Typhoon launches them.
! When landing, far enemies that are leaping/charging may hit you. If buffed, you'll most definitely catch them.
Cons:
-- Honestly, her major drawback of being easily hit and her front-limited attacks is compensated by the buffs+speed class advantage combination, though her range is still pretty bad compared to others like Gracia.
- A single attack chain usually won't kill officers asap. She won't 1hK either, so... yeah.
Officers [ B ]: Usually requires juggling and chasing against buffed Power officers, but against generic ones, 1-2 C4's usually does it.
Crowd [ A ]: Buffed C4 clears a long strip of enemies really fast, Buffed C5 is also great. Cancel to avoid taking hits at the back, and Aerial C after jumps
Archers [ A ]: Air dashing and R1-cancelling closes distance pretty quickly, and try to land Aerial C in the middle.
Strategy: Always activate the buff. C4-4(buffed!)-air dash towards falling enemies->Aerial C->C4/C5 and so on... clears crowds and kills officers easily, especially approaching ones. One trick I'd like to do is start the C4 chain and whiff the S-attacks, only allowing the tornado to hit incoming enemies, then with the buff activated, waste them. Like everyone else, she works best in edges of crowds, not in the middle, so being speed class definitely helps.
Tier: I'd like to say she's easily A to B, but I am a bit biased, so... yeah. I'd like to say though, compared to Aya and Wang Yi, Diaochan seems to get hit a lot less. Definitely requires somewhat high-level play though. Occasionally you will get hit, of course, but it's nothing that air dash or Absorption can't help. Whew!
It seems like this got completely ignored in the middle of that Susano'o rant, but I think it has some valid points.
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~ I am going to purify your soul ~
PSN: uraninezak
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